Stratford to Gloucester and beyond.

[eid]

I'm planning my next journey and would like to go to Gloucester, through Stratford, on the River Avon, and then head north on the Severn etc. Being new, I'm wondering if the weather is likely to cause any problems between now and November on these stretches of River (high water flow).

 

I'd also like to know what other CC'ers do in general at this time of year and through winter; do you avoid rivers completely?

 

Thanks.

Edited September 17, 2018 by eid
commas

[Onewheeler]

Definitely maybe. Avon goes up and down like a fiddler's elbow. Look at the board and be prepared to tie up for a couple of days, or hang around in Stratford for a bit if we have extended dampness. Severn takes much longer to respond but keep aware of tides below Upper Lode. Lockies will advise, but if nervous avoid a few days either side of new / full moon.

[Mike Todd]

28 minutes ago, eid said:

I'm planning my next journey and would like to go to Gloucester, through Stratford, on the River Avon, and then head north on the Severn etc. Being new, I'm wondering if the weather is likely to cause any problems between now and November on these stretches of River (high water flow).

 

I'd also like to know what other CC'ers do in general at this time of year and through winter; do you avoid rivers completely?

 

Thanks.

You say that you are new but do not say whether you have other boating experience.  This is important as I would say that the River Severn is not for someone really new to boating, there are just too many risks. On a canal, if you 'get it wrong' then the consequences are generally not too bad but on a large river like the Severn, even if there is no significant fresh coming down, it can be serious. 

 

For example, passing through the locks, not that there are many, requires very different techniques which have to be learnt - not many people around to teach you, either!

 

High flow on rivers can occur at any time of the year - at the moment the danger is, in one way, quite high. We have had little rain for some time so the river level is low and the catchment area ground very dry. As a result, if there is a period of heavy rain, even quite short, then that can very quickly lead to difficult conditions, especially as you are contemplating being well downstream.

 

How do I know? 50 years nearly ago, we traveled one of the upper sections (from Stourport I think) in our then boat which was a tiny 20ft ex BW hire boat. We had an engine problem at one point and although we did not come to any harm, it was a close call (as we discovered shortly afterwards when we found that we were nearer to a weir than we had thought - navigation aids were more primitive back then - and weirs had no protection either) The experience never leaves you.

 

Having now seen Onewheeler's note - popped up as I was posting - I would also remind that tidal sections when there is fresh are an additional challenge. Even with the experience of lock lock keepers it is difficult to estimate the effect of the balance between the two direction flows and hence what it will be like to enter a lock - at least those on the Severn, unlike some on the tidal Trent, are parallel to the flow not transverse!

Edited September 17, 2018 by Mike Todd
intermediate post

[Timx]

I did most of your trip this time last year, coming off the Severn first week of October. The lockie 's advised us when to travel if I rang ahead ,as the Severn level was getting high. We had no issues, but in general , rivers are best in the summer when the canals are full! Just keep an eye on the weather forecast.  The Avon was really nice, I found the Severn less so and just a means to an end, Upton and Worcester are nice places to stop though. I personally would avoid rivers from Octoberish onwards, for reasons stated in other posts, weather and  less moorings and mooring up when it gets too windy.

 

[Onewheeler]

No, rivers are lovely in the winter. Empty of other boats and plenty of choice of moorings. Just make sure that the level is low and that there's no bad weather forecast.

[Richard Fairhurst]

It does also depend a lot on the power of your engine. Something with a bit of oomph will make short order of a current that smaller boats would struggle against. (That said, that's only really an issue when the river's in the amber or heading that way.)

[Laurie Booth]

I avoid all rivers now due to a serious time on the Thames.

[Naughty Cal]

2 minutes ago, Laurie.Booth said:

I avoid all rivers now due to a serious time on the Thames.

Good. Keep spreading posts like this one please. 

[Bee]

An anchor is a good idea, borrow one if all else fails but the most important thing is an engine and associated machinery that will keep going. so.... the same old mantra - clean fuel, which means a clean tank . Having said that I have never had a problem on the Severn, the Avon though can be difficult if its rained a lot. Not much goes wrong but you do need to be aware of what just might go wrong, apart from that, enjoy it, its all good stuff.

[billS]

20 minutes ago, Laurie.Booth said:

I avoid all rivers now due to a serious time on the Thames.

Did you do something silly?

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, Onewheeler said:

No, rivers are lovely in the winter. Empty of other boats and plenty of choice of moorings. Just make sure that the level is low and that there's no bad weather forecast.

The rate of flow is more important (or at least as important) then the level. The two do not correlate as tightly as some expect, I believe.

 

There is never much choice of mooring on the Severn - just goes from very little to none! (Although we have not been stranded on our small number of transits)

[john6767]

2 hours ago, Richard Fairhurst said:

It does also depend a lot on the power of your engine. Something with a bit of oomph will make short order of a current that smaller boats would struggle against. (That said, that's only really an issue when the river's in the amber or heading that way.)

If you are going to Gloucester this is a very relevant point, the flow from Upper Lode to Gloucester is faster I believe (as the Avon has joined?), we went down at 6.5 mph not much above tick over and a boat that we met that had just come up was only making 1mph and they almost turned round.  Even in summer we are doing less than 4mph upstream on that part.

[eid]

Thank you all for the replies.

 

I do have some experience, from 25 years ago, in a Norman 23` cruiser. I did part of the tidal Thames, from Brentford, and carried on up to Oxford. It had an anchor, which made me feel a lot safer. This was in the summer though.

I had a Seamaster 32 for a while and went out from Bray marina on the Thames in the middle of winter. The current was fast and I didn't feel safe at all. I had thought perhaps rivers were always like this in winter but I guess that is dependent on the rain.

 

Now I am on a narrowboat, without an anchor. I may just wait till next summer to do this and maybe buy an anchor.

Edited September 17, 2018 by eid

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, eid said:

Thank you all for the replies.

 

I do have some experience, from 25 years ago, in a Norman 23` cruiser. I did part of the tidal Thames, from Brentford, and carried on up to Oxford. It had an anchor, which made me feel a lot safer. This was in the summer though.

I had a Seamaster 32 for a while and went out from Bray marina on the Thames in the middle of winter. The current was fast and I didn't feel safe at all. I had thought perhaps rivers were always like this in winter but I guess that is dependent on the rain.

 

Now I am on a narrowboat, without an anchor. I may just wait till next summer to do this and maybe buy an anchor.

An anchor (with sufficient rope etc), a lifejacket and  a moblie phone (with lock numbers to hand) should be considered a minimum.

 

Rivers can be a serious problem in the middle of summer as much as in winter - especially after a summer storm.

[RichM]

 

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

An anchor (with sufficient rope etc), a lifejacket and  a moblie phone (with lock numbers to hand) should be considered a minimum.

 

Rivers can be a serious problem in the middle of summer as much as in winter - especially after a summer storm.

Very wise/good advice. 

 

I did the southern Severn back during one miserable April 2 years ago. Though uneventful, it was bleak and not particularly pleasant though it's a different picture during warmer months. 

 

Definitely advise on having an anchor and would personally consider it a must but also ensure to ensure that it's ready to drop without delay. If you need to drop it quickly you may not have time to be faffing about removing it from the locker and unraveling it etc etc. Those weirs can easily swallow and sink a narrowboat.

 

 

[Laurie Booth]

9 hours ago, billS said:

Did you do something silly?

Yes, I went on a river, that turned into a flood.

[eid]

14 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

An anchor (with sufficient rope etc), a lifejacket and  a moblie phone (with lock numbers to hand) should be considered a minimum.

 

Rivers can be a serious problem in the middle of summer as much as in winter - especially after a summer storm.

 

13 hours ago, RichM said:

 

Very wise/good advice.

 

Yes it is. I have a lifejacket and phone. I'll get the anchor and do this next year.

 

Thank you both.

[Chewbacka]

Also worth remembering that if going up river from Gloucester to Tewkesbury or Worcester it is for quite a few hours and if using high engine revs to make way against higher than fair weather summer' flow then you will use a lot more diesel than normal (maybe five times), so don't try it with a very low tank. 

 

Added - You can check tide times and heights for Sharpness here

http://www.ukho.gov.uk/easytide/easytide/SelectPort.aspx

 

The high tide is about one hour later at Gloucester (2 hours in summer as times are normally in GMT) and if more than about 8m will come over the weir, so if in doubt, call Gloucester lock for advice.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Chewbacka

[Richard Fairhurst]

On the other hand, if you time it right, you can get the tide to push you upstream from Gloucester to Upper Lode. We managed that last year - slightly surreal speeding upstream at 4mph+ while other boats were very slowly labouring downstream on full revs!

[Onewheeler]

Better still, go up to the Boat at Ashleworth an hour before the tide turns, have a pint or two and then ride the tide up to Upper Lode. We've hit about 14 km / h. Watch out for the nav markers opposite the Red Lion.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

If you do decide to try the Severn (I wouldn't advise it without an anchor, some of the weirs are unprotected as evidenced by a narrow boat that is still sitting on one) this Severn Bore predictor will show you when the most significant tides will be

 

 

 

 

and bear in mind that the Severn Bore can run up as far as Upper Lode Lock (Tewkesbury) and riding that in a narrow boat would be a little bit too adventurous

[eid]

Thanks guys. Lots of great advice, though I may leave the two pints till after ?.

 

Glad I made this post as I really had no idea. I'm sure I read in another post that going to Gloucester was just like going up a canal. I definitely got that idea in my head from somewhere anyway.

[Richard Fairhurst]

19 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

If you do decide to try the Severn (I wouldn't advise it without an anchor, some of the weirs are unprotected as evidenced by a narrow boat that is still sitting on one)

Which weir is that, out of interest?

[The Bearwood Boster]

I saw one on a weir at Nafford lock on the Avon.It's been there a good few years as they can't get to it safely.Haven't noticed one on the Severn.

[ditchcrawler]

On 17/09/2018 at 10:04, Mike Todd said:

You say that you are new but do not say whether you have other boating experience.  This is important as I would say that the River Severn is not for someone really new to boating, there are just too many risks. On a canal, if you 'get it wrong' then the consequences are generally not too bad but on a large river like the Severn, even if there is no significant fresh coming down, it can be serious. 

 

For example, passing through the locks, not that there are many, requires very different techniques which have to be learnt - not many people around to teach you, either!

 

High flow on rivers can occur at any time of the year - at the moment the danger is, in one way, quite high. We have had little rain for some time so the river level is low and the catchment area ground very dry. As a result, if there is a period of heavy rain, even quite short, then that can very quickly lead to difficult conditions, especially as you are contemplating being well downstream.

 

How do I know? 50 years nearly ago, we traveled one of the upper sections (from Stourport I think) in our then boat which was a tiny 20ft ex BW hire boat. We had an engine problem at one point and although we did not come to any harm, it was a close call (as we discovered shortly afterwards when we found that we were nearer to a weir than we had thought - navigation aids were more primitive back then - and weirs had no protection either) The experience never leaves you.

 

Having now seen Onewheeler's note - popped up as I was posting - I would also remind that tidal sections when there is fresh are an additional challenge. Even with the experience of lock lock keepers it is difficult to estimate the effect of the balance between the two direction flows and hence what it will be like to enter a lock - at least those on the Severn, unlike some on the tidal Trent, are parallel to the flow not transverse!

Funny, loads of brand new hirers, some with only a few hours experience, not days manage OK every season