Old Son Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 I have just used the last of my Marine 16 Diesel Fuel Complete. I bought a litre in 2017. I've just looked up prices and 1 litre has jumped from £29.95 to £46!!! Is there another product that works as well or is there somewhere I can buy Complete for less than £46/litre? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 I have started this year using Clear Winner Hydros LA88 which works out cheaper per litre than marine 16 diesel fuel complete. It works in a different way to marine 16 by absorbing any moisture in the fuel while marine 16 causes moisture to drop out. I ran for about a thankful with no treatment to avoid mixing the two products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, MartynG said: I have started this year using Clear Winner Hydros LA88 which works out cheaper per litre than marine 16 diesel fuel complete. It works in a different way to marine 16 by absorbing any moisture in the fuel while marine 16 causes moisture to drop out. I ran for about a thankful with no treatment to avoid mixing the two products. And was your engine grateful? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Stilllearning said: And was your engine grateful? Hard to say . I do think the engines run a bit more smoothly with treatment rather than without. For me the treatment is a precaution and not a cure for a fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, MartynG said: Hard to say . I do think the engines run a bit more smoothly with treatment rather than without. For me the treatment is a precaution and not a cure for a fault. mmm, but just how long is a thankful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Stilllearning said: mmm, but just how long is a thankful? On the river about 100engine hours. At 20 odd knots at sea 10engine hours. In practice most of a year. Edited September 15, 2018 by MartynG . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hurley Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 21 minutes ago, Stilllearning said: mmm, but just how long is a thankful? Whoosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 2 hours ago, MartynG said: I have started this year using Clear Winner Hydros LA88 which works out cheaper per litre than marine 16 diesel fuel complete. It works in a different way to marine 16 by absorbing any moisture in the fuel while marine 16 causes moisture to drop out. I ran for about a thankful with no treatment to avoid mixing the two products. Having seen the amount of emulsification an "absorbent" type additive produced in my tank that I thought was more or less water free, the warning about such stuff that Ebespacher gave me and some me very odd filter blocking waxy stuff RCR found I am not sure absorbants are a good idea unless you absolutely know your tank is water free and it stays that way so no larger leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 There are loads and loads of fuel additives on the market and the difficult bit is deciding which ones are any good. I suspect that only a few people actually make them and so most are just purchased in bulk from these big chemical factories and rebranded. From what I read it appears that a few have chemistries which can actually create problems, but the big thing is that any water in the fuel can be a source of various problems and so emulsifiers are very risky. Demulsifiers that help the water to get removed by the filters are a better option. I am surprised that Fuelset is so popular with boaters as its an emulsifier and also suitable for petrol and diesel, a dedicated diesel additive makes much more sense. Dieselbug is only a small part of the problem, there are several non-bug mechanisms for forming solid lumps in the fuel. ..........Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 31 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: Having seen the amount of emulsification an "absorbent" type additive produced in my tank that I thought was more or less water free, the warning about such stuff that Ebespacher gave me and some me very odd filter blocking waxy stuff RCR found I am not sure absorbants are a good idea unless you absolutely know your tank is water free and it stays that way so no larger leaks. You may be correct . I have done a fuel filter change after consuming about 200 litres and the red stuff was fine . No sign of water or emulsion. I don't use fuel treatment to cure a problem - only to try to protect against issues and to keep the fuel system clean. My tanks don't have any means to drain at the bottom so I don't want to risk a layer of water developing at the bottom of the fuel . I am not saying one product is better than another but prices do vary and the product I mentioned is economical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 31 minutes ago, dmr said: a dedicated diesel additive makes much more sense The clear winner product I mentioned is marketed for diesel engine use https://www.clear-winner.co.uk/products/marine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: Having seen the amount of emulsification an "absorbent" type additive produced in my tank that I thought was more or less water free, the warning about such stuff that Ebespacher gave me and some me very odd filter blocking waxy stuff RCR found I am not sure absorbants are a good idea unless you absolutely know your tank is water free and it stays that way so no larger leaks. I would second this. I used an emulsifier type and all of the diesel in the tank was ruined, (leaky deck filler) if I had not used that type of additive I think I could probably have got the water out of the bottom of the tank. I am not going to set up an experiment to compare what happens and I am not a chemist or an expert but now I just open up the inspection plate in the tank and have a look at what is really in the tank. If I ever have another boat it will DEFINITELY have an inspection plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Bee said: (leaky deck filler) I note the outcome in your case but no fuel additive is a remedy for that sort of fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dor Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 3 hours ago, MartynG said: My tanks don't have any means to drain at the bottom so I don't want to risk a layer of water developing at the bottom of the fuel . I am not saying one product is better than another but prices do vary and the product I mentioned is economical. I use a piece of clear plastic tube, cut at an angle at the bottom and attached to a length of wood. Every so often I dip this in the tank and siphon off what is at the bottom. Mostly I get perhaps a little bit of water then clean diesel. However I have in the past siphoned off over eight litres of water, and/or sucked out some black blobs of something. I'm pretty certain much of the water in the diesel tank comes from the supplier of the diesel. I've never had a problem with the fuel boats on the Shroppie, probably because they have a good turnover and the tank get agitated. The time I siphoned off the eight litres was because it stopped the engine. Not long after I had filled up at a canalside supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 11 hours ago, MartynG said: You may be correct . I have done a fuel filter change after consuming about 200 litres and the red stuff was fine . No sign of water or emulsion. I don't use fuel treatment to cure a problem - only to try to protect against issues and to keep the fuel system clean. My tanks don't have any means to drain at the bottom so I don't want to risk a layer of water developing at the bottom of the fuel . I am not saying one product is better than another but prices do vary and the product I mentioned is economical. Unless you do what Bee, myself and many others on here do an siphon/pump whatever is at the bottom of the tank out at least annually you will not know if you have any water or emulsion in your tank. Whatever the filters or water traps have caught is not a good indicator because the fuel pick up pipe should be some way above the bottom of the tank. I would urge you to siphon or pump your tank in the next few months. A I said I thought my tank was more or less water free having pumped it the previous two winters and used Fuelset the previous summer.My fuel filler is a sensible one with a female cap on a threaded upstand so no water can get in there and the breather is inside the cockpit down sheeting so it is protected from leaking locks. I think the problem was that the previous years I was using a small bore tube to get into the tank and it had been blocking and water had built up but not enough to get sucked into the filter & water trap. Adding Fuelset just emulsified the lot in the bottom of the tank. As soon as I switched to a much larger bore tube out it all came. I did post photos here but can't find them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: Adding Fuelset just emulsified the lot in the bottom of the tank. As soon as I switched to a much larger bore tube out it all came. I did post photos here but can't find them now You have me a bit worried now as water or watery stuff at the bottom of the tank is precisely what i want to avoid.. I suspect my boat stirs up the fuel on the occasions we go fast . However I will consider having a look and a pump out using my oil extractor... but not just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 38 minutes ago, MartynG said: You have me a bit worried now as water or watery stuff at the bottom of the tank is precisely what i want to avoid.. I suspect my boat stirs up the fuel on the occasions we go fast . However I will consider having a look and a pump out using my oil extractor... but not just now. I suspect that regular (6 monthly) sucking up of fuel from the bottom of the tank plus a water separator in the fuel line will be more effective and cheaper (if more labour-intensive) than any additive. I’d be interested in @Tony Brooks opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, WotEver said: I suspect that regular (6 monthly) sucking up of fuel from the bottom of the tank plus a water separator in the fuel line will be more effective and cheaper (if more labour-intensive) than any additive. I’d be interested in @Tony Brooks opinion. But even with a demulsifier additive the tank needs sucking, the idea behind the demulsifier is to help the water to end up at the bottom of the tank. Additives are about a lot more than just diesel bug and water removal, modern diesel is of increasingly poor quality due to the addition of bio diesel, removal of sulphur, and also because the world is running out so needing to extract poorer quality stuff and refine a bigger percentage of what they get. Storing it for months in a boat fuel tank does not help either. .................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Son Posted September 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 It sounds as though I might as well continue with Marine 16 Diesel Fuel Complete. It has worked well for me. I use my dipstick with a water paste on it to check for water in the tank. To date it has shown nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 16, 2018 Report Share Posted September 16, 2018 30 minutes ago, WotEver said: I suspect that regular (6 monthly) sucking up of fuel from the bottom of the tank plus a water separator in the fuel line will be more effective and cheaper (if more labour-intensive) than any additive. I’d be interested in @Tony Brooks opinion. That is the whole basis of good fuel storage practice but the cost of a full tank of fuel to bug plus the associated cost of cleaning and sterilizing the system make me think that using a Marine16 Complete like additive at the last tank fill of the season is a cost effective insurance, especially as in many boats you do not need to use a full bottle. Once you area s sure as you can be that there is no water in the tank there is a reasonable argument for using a Fuelset like product from second fill of the season to a couple of fills before the winter. Then nothing and at the last fill back to a biocide/demulsifier. In my view its is just like an insurance policy, you hope it will never be needed but......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted September 18, 2018 Report Share Posted September 18, 2018 On 16/09/2018 at 11:21, Tony Brooks said: In my view its is just like an insurance policy, you hope it will never be needed but......... I do agree a fuel additive is an insurance and costing in the order ot 1 to 2 pence a litre of diesel depending on the product used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom766 Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Good grief dor, 8 litres of water! This explains why my engine wouldn't start after winter, until I changed three filters. The filter nearest the tank had the beige gunk in it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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