Mixing fuel containers

[Johny London]

Just wondering about using a can that has had diesel in for petrol, and vice versa. Will a small residue of the other fuel type cause problems or does that depend on which piece of equipment we might be talking about?

Also - I filled my diesel can (for use on the boat) with white diesel one time, but in the end did not need to use it. Could I put that in the car or would there be a risk of red diesel showing up if ever the car was tested for it? (I have never put red in the Jaguar btw - at 50+ mpg there is absolutely no point!).

I do have two cans, just wondering.

[WotEver]

A trace will be completely irrelevant. You could probably actually mix a reasonable percentage before anything would be affected. 

 

Yes, there could be a touch of red dye in the Jag fuel system but so what? How often do the men in blue ever check?

[tree monkey]

Big engines with big fuel tanks I wouldn't worry about a touch of contamination, on the other hand I wouldn't use a can with diesel residue to mix 2 stroke for a chainsaw for example.

 

[OldGoat]

Methinks it's all a matter of degree. If the amount of diesel  is so small - for example the amount left that's just sufficient to 'wet' the container (if you upended the can into something else and nobot a wee drop, then dinna fash yersel'. Again for a chain saw - you mix  a lubricant = oil with the fuel anyway don't you?

[tree monkey]

3 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Methinks it's all a matter of degree. If the amount of diesel  is so small - for example the amount left that's just sufficient to 'wet' the container (if you upended the can into something else and nobot a wee drop, then dinna fash yersel'. Again for a chain saw - you mix  a lubricant = oil with the fuel anyway don't you?

Yeah but, my chainsaws get only the best 2 stroke, not dirty smelly diesel 

[Dr Bob]

As all above, no problem with small contamination either way. I wouldnt put any red diesel in my car tank as if it was checked, ie if in an accident, 'any' red dye is going to show up. A very small amount diluted by many tanks of white diesel may well go unnoticed but I wouldnt take the chance.

[blackrose]

A small amount won't hurt, but personally if I was filling an old diesel container with petrol I'd put a bit of petrol in first and shake it around to clean it out before emptying it in a small container. But you obviously need to do that before you go to the petrol station. 

[Johny London]

Thank you for the advice. I will endeavour to use one jerry can for petrol and one for diesel, with an option to double up on either if I need to on occasion.

[roland elsdon]

I once put a gallon of diesel from a can into a petrol car by mistake . It was the end of the day and i had a student job delivering new cars. They had to be supplied full so topped up from a can while someone watched the gauge. I drove it to the dealers no trouble mentioned it was ‘ smoking a bit’ , they couldnt care less ( it was a fiat) and nothing was mentioned on subsequent deliveries so...  i suggested red can petrol black can diesel to my employer but they didnt care either.. just sniff them. 

[WotEver]

26 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

I once put a gallon of diesel from a can into a petrol car by mistake . It was the end of the day and i had a student job delivering new cars. They had to be supplied full so topped up from a can while someone watched the gauge. I drove it to the dealers no trouble mentioned it was ‘ smoking a bit’ , they couldnt care less ( it was a fiat) and nothing was mentioned on subsequent deliveries so...  i suggested red can petrol black can diesel to my employer but they didnt care either.. just sniff them. 

I put more than 2/3 tank of petrol in a diesel car a few years back. Everyone told me of all the problems I’d have with perished seals and damage to the pump (GM engine in a Chrysler) but there were no apparent problems other than it would leak back overnight and I’d have to manually operate the pump prior to starting it. That went on for a few days until I could dilute it further with more diesel. 

[DandV]

Refined "white product" petroleum product distribution pipelines between refineries and remote fuel terminals usually employ sequenced deliveries of everything from high octane motor spirit through jet fuel to diesel fuel through the one pipe. This why tapping into such pipes can give you an uncertain fuel. There is no physical barrier (pipeline pigs) between products. Surprisingly little mixing occurs between the products. Generally once the product interface is detected on arrival, initially by metering, and then dynamically sampling, the new product is simply routed into the appropriate tank and any mixed product does not take either the preceeding or following product out of spec. The exception is the interface leading a jet fuel delivery, where the interface is separately tanked until certainty of specification compliance of the jet fuel delivery has been established. The contents of the interface tank are just blended into diesel storage at a rate that ensures specification is maintained.

From memory jet fuel was preceeded by diesel and followed by regular petrol.

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, DandV said:

From memory jet fuel was preceeded by diesel and followed by regular petrol.

My understanding is that jet fuel is more like paraffin than petrol, which would make sense of the above. Is my understanding correct?

[Alan de Enfield]

We use red-diesel (Gas-Oil) delivered by tanker.

 

I often wondered how the tanker deliveries make sure you get what you ordered, as there is a big long hose which when the 'tap' is switched off at the end of the hose will have a quantity of liquid in it, between the tap and the tank / pump. So do I get 100 litres of whatever the last customer had ?

 

The answer was :

We know how much fuel the pipe holds (typically 100 litres), so when we are nearing the end of the delivery the tanks are switched over for the last (100 litres) to whatever fuel is required for the next drop, when the pump stops at the ordered quantity, the 'other' fuel will be just reaching the 'tap'.

You may get a few drops of the 'other' fuel, or the next customer may get a few drops of 'your fuel'.

[nb Innisfree]

Many years ago I filled up our nearly empty Peugeot diesel car with petrol, only just made the 1.5 miles home before it stopped, I drained it all down and stuck a gallon of diesel in to get it going again. The next day I went back to the station and pulled in behind a motor home and started refilling with diesel, I engaged the motor home driver in conversation and asked what mpg he got, "30" he said, "From petrol?" I said, "No, diesel". Pregnant pause as we looked at our respective pumps, look of relief on my face but total pain on his! He was just nearing full from empty, poor sod! Amazing coincidence I thought. My neighbour wasn't too chuffed though with the half price petrol he bought from me, only a small amount of diesel in it but it took a weeks of regularly topping up his Ford Orion with fresh petrol before it ran properly. 

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Many years ago I filled up our nearly empty Peugeot diesel car with petrol, only just made the 1.5 miles home before it stopped, I drained it all down and stuck a gallon of diesel in to get it going again. The next day I went back to the station and pulled in behind a motor home and started refilling with diesel, I engaged the motor home driver in conversation and asked what mpg he got, "30" he said, "From petrol?" I said, "No, diesel". Pregnant pause as we looked at our respective pumps, look of relief on my face but total pain on his! He was just nearing full from empty, poor sod! Amazing coincidence I thought. My neighbour wasn't too chuffed though with the half price petrol he bought from me, only a small amount of diesel in it but it took a weeks of regularly topping up his Ford Orion with fresh petrol before it ran properly. 

Similar

 

Many, many years ago at the Gliding Club we used 'big-Jags' for launching the gliders, we got thru a fair bit of petrol, but on this particular day the stock had run low.

One of the members, a Taxi driver, said he would take one of the cars down to the local garage to fill it up (no MOT, Tax or insurance, and not even road worthy !!!) so off he went.

Came back with a full twin-tanks,(Mk10) but, despite switching off the ignition the engine kept running, it turned out he had 'automatically' pulled up at the pump he always used for his Taxi (Diesel) Relying on heat and compression rather than a spark, it just did the 'Duracell Bunny' and kept running and running -  it was decided that the best thing to do was just leave it running until it ran out of fuel.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[nb Innisfree]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Similar

 

Many, many years ago at the Gliding Club we used 'big-Jags' for launching the gliders, we got thru a fair bit of petrol, but on this particular day the stock had run low.

One of the members, a Taxi driver, said he would take one of the cars down to the local garage to fill it up (no MOT, Tax or insurance, and not even road worthy !!!) so off he went.

Came back with a full twin-tanks,(Mk10) but, despite switching off the ignition the engine kept running, it turned out he had 'automatically' pulled up at the pump he always used for his Taxi (Diesel) Relying on heat and compression rather than a spark, it just did the 'Duracell Bunny' and kept running and running -  it was decided that the best thing to do was just leave it running until it ran out of fuel.

We used a Mk 7 (or Mk 8 or 9, can't remember) piano cable round a swivelling pulley and Jag drove towards launch point, (6000ft runway so decent launches) it was only just powerful enough (3.4 litre) F100 pickup and Chevrolet Impala were better. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

We used a Mk 7 (or Mk 8 or 9, can't remember) piano cable round a swivelling pulley and Jag drove towards launch point, (6000ft runway so decent launches) it was only just powerful enough (3.4 litre) F100 pickup and Chevrolet Impala were better. 

That's what we had, A Reverse-Pulley system, with piano wire. When it went up from 75p to 85p a launch there was a 'riot' (Aero Tows went up to £4 to 2000 feet).

The main E/W runway was 1300 yards and in strong winds it was quite easy to 'kite' the old T21 up to 3000 feet by reversing the tow car and 'playing' the glider.

 

Did 100s of hours instructing there - happy days !!!

[nb Innisfree]

59 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That's what we had, A Reverse-Pulley system, with piano wire. When it went up from 75p to 85p a launch there was a 'riot' (Aero Tows went up to £4 to 2000 feet).

The main E/W runway was 1300 yards and in strong winds it was quite easy to 'kite' the old T21 up to 3000 feet by reversing the tow car and 'playing' the glider.

 

Did 100s of hours instructing there - happy days !!!

Ours was Dorset Gliding Club at Tarrant Rushton, T21, K13 and a couple of Swallows. We also used piano wire, once saw the tow car driver get out and throw his hands up, Swallow was at 2500' and he didn't think about reversing, No one could jump in and take over as he was 1/2 mile away, frustrating! Wire launch was 7s/6d before decimalisation. Happy to spend all day in bitterly cold weather on an exposed runway with regular cups of Nescafe instant coffee though things got a bit luxurious when we bought an old coach and used it as a 'control point' (it was for socialising in really!) Happy days. 

 

ETA: Aerotow was £1.50 when I left in the mid 70s.

Edited September 16, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[DandV]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

My understanding is that jet fuel is more like paraffin than petrol, which would make sense of the above. Is my understanding correct?

Jet fuel will meet specification for paraffin, but paraffin, will not meet a jet fuel specification, as jet fuel's composition is much more narrowly defined, but also, very  importantly, any aviation product comes with a completely documented quality testing regime covering the actual product and it's storage and transport facilities from refinery all the way to the aircraft filling point. Off spec, or unsatisfactorily documented,  jet fuel at any stage of its journey,  just became  kerosene to be used as a heating fuel or industrial solvent. Petrol would would be a dangerous contaminant of jet fuel because as it vapourises more readily it could vapourlock the aircraft fuel lines at the low pressures of high altitude flying.

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by DandV