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MJG

How can you tell when a Russian tourist is lying.......

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I seem to remember reading that their visas said they were St Petersburg businessmen. They could at least get the story consistent. On the other hand, do they feel they need to bother?

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Oh and apparently they don't like snow and slush, which rather begs the question how they both cope in Moscow.

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Racism is alive and kicking in Britain. That's if you consider the ill treatment of a particular nation as racism; I don't think there's another word. If the suspects had been, say, Saudi Arabian, there would have been no statement of guilt until they had stood trial and been convicted in a court of law. This fair reasoning seems to go out of the window with all matters Russian, and only Russian.

 

It's about time the west came to terms with the fact that the cold war ended some time ago and made friends with this nation, rather than taking every possible opportunity to condemn it.    

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Just now, Gareth E said:

Racism is alive and kicking in Britain. That's if you consider the ill treatment of a particular nation as racism; I don't think there's another word. If the suspects had been, say, Saudi Arabian, there would have been no statement of guilt until they had stood trial and been convicted in a court of law. This fair reasoning seems to go out of the window with all matters Russian, and only Russian.

 

It's about time the west came to terms with the fact that the cold war ended some time ago and made friends with this nation, rather than taking every possible opportunity to condemn it.    

Well I've seen some utterly bonkers posts on here before but that one gets the biscuit.

So you believe them?

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Just now, Gareth E said:

Racism is alive and kicking in Britain. That's if you consider the ill treatment of a particular nation as racism; I don't think there's another word. If the suspects had been, say, Saudi Arabian, there would have been no statement of guilt until they had stood trial and been convicted in a court of law. This fair reasoning seems to go out of the window with all matters Russian, and only Russian.

 

It's about time the west came to terms with the fact that the cold war ended some time ago and made friends with this nation, rather than taking every possible opportunity to condemn it.    

You must not have got Orwell's 1984 memo - we are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

 

Just because you and Winston Smith remember a time when we were not at war with Eurasia is no reason to allow you to publicly say these things.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Gareth E said:

Racism is alive and kicking in Britain. That's if you consider the ill treatment of a particular nation as racism; I don't think there's another word. If the suspects had been, say, Saudi Arabian, there would have been no statement of guilt until they had stood trial and been convicted in a court of law. This fair reasoning seems to go out of the window with all matters Russian, and only Russian.

 

It's about time the west came to terms with the fact that the cold war ended some time ago and made friends with this nation, rather than taking every possible opportunity to condemn it.    

Ha ha ha ha 🤣😆🙄 ……. nice one comrade!

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The interview was priceless, if only to confirm they did it. What was equally funny, was the minister talking about it later, saying if he was their defence brief, his legal advice would be to shut up.

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Quote

 

'It was at that moment during our tourist visit to Salisbury, that the nerve agent, which was unknowingly placed into my luggage, fell and unfortunately sprayed on to the gentleman's front door. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the matter".

 

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1 hour ago, Gareth E said:

 

 

It's about time the west came to terms with the fact that the cold war ended some time ago and made friends with this nation, rather than taking every possible opportunity to condemn it.    

 Problem is though that Russia is still behaving like the old USSR, Crimea and Ukraine just to mention two and the brutality in Syria is something else. Putin has pretty much absolute power and has had a few good years screwing the west, installing Trump, funding Brexit,  and destabilising the middle east (With the added bonus of creating a refugee crisis that weakens the EU and decent Western governments)  I think that the West would be happy to be friends with Russia if Russia was run by genuine democratic and un corrupt governments. I met some Russians a while ago - seemed nice people, I am happy to be friends with them so long as their awful government lays off of the rest of the world.

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4 minutes ago, artleknock said:

I was there.

The spray was there.

The door was there.

But I was not involved in the incident.

And, like Bill Clinton, they never inhaled!

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Neither of them in their right minds are going to say "You got me bang to rights gov, slap the cuffs on," (Or whatever it is in Russian*) are they?

 

* Вы меня взрыва прав gov, пощечину манжеты на

 

Edited by Ray T

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1 hour ago, Gareth E said:

Racism is alive and kicking in Britain. That's if you consider the ill treatment of a particular nation as racism; I don't think there's another word. If the suspects had been, say, Saudi Arabian, there would have been no statement of guilt until they had stood trial and been convicted in a court of law. This fair reasoning seems to go out of the window with all matters Russian, and only Russian.

 

It's about time the west came to terms with the fact that the cold war ended some time ago and made friends with this nation, rather than taking every possible opportunity to condemn it.    

Twaddle!

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21 minutes ago, Bee said:

 Problem is though that Russia is still behaving like the old USSR, Crimea and Ukraine just to mention two and the brutality in Syria is something else. Putin has pretty much absolute power and has had a few good years screwing the west, installing Trump, funding Brexit,  and destabilising the middle east (With the added bonus of creating a refugee crisis that weakens the EU and decent Western governments)  I think that the West would be happy to be friends with Russia if Russia was run by genuine democratic and un corrupt governments. I met some Russians a while ago - seemed nice people, I am happy to be friends with them so long as their awful government lays off of the rest of the world.

Actually, they are behaving worse.

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clearly their intended victims were very lucky that these two jokers were sent to do the job! they are as bad at telling porkies as they are at knocking people off and getting caught on CCTV at every place they shouldnt have been at

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12 minutes ago, peterboat said:

clearly their intended victims were very lucky that these two jokers were sent to do the job! they are as bad at telling porkies as they are at knocking people off and getting caught on CCTV at every place they shouldnt have been at

I think being caught on cctv was a certainty, as we are one of the most surveilled countries in the world. Their failing was not have a good cover story that can withstand scrutiny.

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A very odd tourist agenda.

Fly all the way from Russia to London one day.

Go to Salisbury for 2 hours the next day, then return to London.

Go to Salisbury again for a couple of hours the following day, then fly back to Russia the same day.  Whoever they are, they ain't no tourists.

Oh, and I forgot, they chucked the dodgy scent bottle out of the train window as they went past Porton Down - a delicate touch!

But a local couple from nearby Amesbury who happened to pick it up, will not consider it delicate!

What a transparent load of old baloney - who do they think they are kidding?

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4 hours ago, Gareth E said:

Racism is alive and kicking in Britain. That's if you consider the ill treatment of a particular nation as racism; I don't think there's another word. If the suspects had been, say, Saudi Arabian, there would have been no statement of guilt until they had stood trial and been convicted in a court of law. This fair reasoning seems to go out of the window with all matters Russian, and only Russian.

 

It's about time the west came to terms with the fact that the cold war ended some time ago and made friends with this nation, rather than taking every possible opportunity to condemn it.    

Not quite sure why producing evidence of an offence amounts to racism, perhaps you can assist in helping us out?

 

The usual criminal ploy of "what about (Saudi Arabia)..." doesn't really work since it is already accepted that they are a bunch or terrorist supporters (why else wasn't Cameron's report into nations supporting terrorism ever published?) but is has bog all to do with Russian executioners. We have had Lugovoy and Kovtun come across here to execute Litvinenko and now Petrov and Boshirov come across to try to execute Skripal and you wish to be a Russian apologist, why is that? They asked to be part of the enquiry, does Italy invite the Mafia to take part in any suspected Mafia murder enquiry? if not, why do you think that is?

 

I have to be honest that at one time I was also gullible, but I'm better now. When a Russian BUK missile shot down passenger aircraft MH17 over Ukraine in 2014 I watched Russia Today (the russian propaganda machine) and their reporting of it, at that point I realised that nothing coming from Russia can any longer be believed. I was expecting something like the incident when the USS Vincennnes inadvertently shot down Iranian passenger flight 655 in 1988 where they accepted that it was an error, whereas what we got was a total load of bullox. I could have lived with 'a mistake was made' but the propaganda bullsh*t that came forth Mr Goebbels would have been proud of. Since that time I no longer believe anything that a Russian source comes out with unless verified by a genuine source, nothing from Russia is a 'genuine source', this isn't racism, this is experience.

 

The Russian people themselves are fine(as are Iranians), they are just led by a bunch of corrupt b*stards who cannot be believed on anything.

Edited by Wanderer Vagabond
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It seems there's not much support for my view. Oh well, I've rarely been one to fit in. I'll stick with my convictions though. 

 

I agree that the 2 Russian's attempts at being tourists wasn't very convincing. That doesn't matter. If  a nation 'convicts' suspects of a crime based on an interview on a foreign television station, it says a couple of things. First, we've been so consumed by the anti Russian rhetoric that we just believe anything negative about Russia and Russians that's put before us. Secondly, we're not the highly civilised, fair thinking progressive thinkers that we believe we are.

 

We have the rule of law and a judicial system. I'd prefer to trust that rather than twitter like an awkward teenager after watching a bit of entertainment on the telly.  

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4 hours ago, wandering snail said:

I seem to remember reading that their visas said they were St Petersburg businessmen. They could at least get the story consistent. On the other hand, do they feel they need to bother?

Why can't businessmen go on holiday?

5 hours ago, MJG said:

Oh and apparently they don't like snow and slush, which rather begs the question how they both cope in Moscow.

I thought they were from St Petersburg?

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4 minutes ago, Gareth E said:

It seems there's not much support for my view. Oh well, I've rarely been one to fit in. I'll stick with my convictions though. 

 

I agree that the 2 Russian's attempts at being tourists wasn't very convincing. That doesn't matter. If  a nation 'convicts' suspects of a crime based on an interview on a foreign television station, it says a couple of things. First, we've been so consumed by the anti Russian rhetoric that we just believe anything negative about Russia and Russians that's put before us. Secondly, we're not the highly civilised, fair thinking progressive thinkers that we believe we are.

 

We have the rule of law and a judicial system. I'd prefer to trust that rather than twitter like an awkward teenager after watching a bit of entertainment on the telly.  

We do have the rule of law and the judicial system.  It is also normal in a country with a free press/media to have reporting on evidence prior to a trial often with editorial speculation and comment to try and make sense of what is going on.  It does not mean they have been "convicted" but it does mean the Police etc. have enough evidence to bring that to trial to be tested in a court of law. The rather implausible alibi put forward by the Russian pair if a trial was to be held would also be tested against that evidence.

 

However, you will wait a long time for anyone let alone these two before a trial is conducted in the UK for these crimes as the Russian state never allows a Russian citizen to be deported for any trial for any kind of crime. 

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6 minutes ago, churchward said:

We do have the rule of law and the judicial system.  It is also normal in a country with a free press/media to have reporting on evidence prior to a trial often with editorial speculation and comment to try and make sense of what is going on.  It does not mean they have been "convicted" but it does mean the Police etc. have enough evidence to bring that to trial to be tested in a court of law. The rather implausible alibi put forward by the Russian pair if a trial was to be held would also be tested against that evidence.

 

However, you will wait a long time for anyone let alone these two before a trial is conducted in the UK for these crimes as the Russian state never allows a Russian citizen to be deported for any trial for any kind of crime. 

My point really, wasn't to suggest that Russia are some kind of model democracy, one that we should aspire to. Far from it. Rather, it was how a large proportion of us Brits can spout on about fairness, equality and the like. We can even be offended on behalf of others. But on other occasions we just judge and execute, in the style of a barbarian. 

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14 minutes ago, Gareth E said:

It seems there's not much support for my view. Oh well, I've rarely been one to fit in. I'll stick with my convictions though. 

 

I agree that the 2 Russian's attempts at being tourists wasn't very convincing. That doesn't matter. If  a nation 'convicts' suspects of a crime based on an interview on a foreign television station, it says a couple of things. First, we've been so consumed by the anti Russian rhetoric that we just believe anything negative about Russia and Russians that's put before us. Secondly, we're not the highly civilised, fair thinking progressive thinkers that we believe we are.

 

We have the rule of law and a judicial system. I'd prefer to trust that rather than twitter like an awkward teenager after watching a bit of entertainment on the telly.  

We may well have a rule of law and judicial system but, like the Litvinenko incident, it isn't going to lead to any convictions because it is not in Russia's interests to do so. If they are going go mock, ridicule and generally come up with totally implausible suggestions I feel quite comfortable slandering the people concerned since it is the only option left. You seem to be conflating criticism of Putin and his cronies with 'anti russian rhetoric', I have no problem with the Russian people, it is their rulers I tend to have the difficulty with. When they can't even be *rsed to come up with a reasoned response, why should I show any reason towards them? As I said in an earlier post, they are going to have to do a lot of work on their credibility to repair the damage shooting down MH17 over Ukraine did and they haven't even started to try so I will just accept that you can always tell when they are lying,  their lips move.

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5 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

We may well have a rule of law and judicial system but, like the Litvinenko incident, it isn't going to lead to any convictions because it is not in Russia's interests to do so. If they are going go mock, ridicule and generally come up with totally implausible suggestions I feel quite comfortable slandering the people concerned since it is the only option left. You seem to be conflating criticism of Putin and his cronies with 'anti russian rhetoric', I have no problem with the Russian people, it is their rulers I tend to have the difficulty with. When they can't even be *rsed to come up with a reasoned response, why should I show any reason towards them? As I said in an earlier post, they are going to have to do a lot of work on their credibility to repair the damage shooting down MH17 over Ukraine did and they haven't even started to try so I will just accept that you can always tell when they are lying,  their lips move.

It's probably a good thing that there isn't an outraged buzzword for anti Russian sentiment, in the way that there is for Israel. If there was a post like yours where the criticism was for Israel rather than Russia you might find that suggesting that when people's lips move they lie might lead you into hot water. Mind you, if you're a Corbyn supporter, it might be all fine and dandy.     

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