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What boat builder for manufacture of a custom designed shell?


Phil_B

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes - the storage lockers (sides of the boat) and not much lower than the table, (just enough to get your knees under) so imagine trying to step off a table onto the floor with a floor space of only around 2 feet x 3 feet to get a around in- it is very awkward - as you lean forward you hit the top of the cratch. You also regularly skin your shins.

 

Mark a 2x3 foot space on the floor and fasten a plank 5' 6" off the ground above it.

Now put a chair (seat around 18-20" high), stand on it and try and step down into the marked out 'square'.

"Steps" are typically 9"-12" in height so this is like stepping down a 'double height' step.

 

When exiting the boat, you needed a 'step' to be able to get up onto the locker lids, then it was still a big 'step' to get your leg up and over the side and onto a pontoon / bank side. Regularly skinned shins as you try and lean over to reach. The solution was to ; Step from the well onto a caravan step, step onto the locker top, step from the locker top onto the gunwhale (balance) and then step from the gunwhale onto the pontoon / bankside.

 

I wouldn't go out of my way to have one with a 'sunken-foredeck' again.

 

 

IMG_1528.JPG

What about sitting/crouching on thE side of the boat and lowering yourself in? Any good?

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22 minutes ago, Phil_B said:

What about sitting/crouching on thE side of the boat and lowering yourself in? Any good?

Boating is supposed to be a pleasure - not an obstacle course.

 

Mrs De Enfield and I are not of the persuasion to go leaping about, crouching and lowering ourselves.

(We no longer have that boat)

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16 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A low floor level at the bow is not unique - unusual yes, unique no.

There are one or two builders that do it as standard (Reeves being one of them) 

Any idea on the other boat builder that does it?

 

I'm also thinking that I may be interested in a 'eco hull'. I'm not really an environmentalist but I think they look quite nice and if it saves on fuel so long as it would not cost loads more to build. Again though I would also want the low bow deck.

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Just now, Phil_B said:

Any idea on the other boat builder that does it?

No, sorry.

I have seen another (obviously non-Reeves boat) with a 'sunken-floor' in the bow, but no-eye-deer on maker, it could even have been a home-build.

 

Maybe home build is the way for you to go, supply your CAD 'cutting plans' to a plate steel supplier and then you can (or, if your skills are more mental than practical, have someone) weld them up into the shape you want, you are them responsible if the dimensions are incorrect or, a window 'slips' a couple of mm.

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43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No, sorry.

I have seen another (obviously non-Reeves boat) with a 'sunken-floor' in the bow, but no-eye-deer on maker, it could even have been a home-build.

 

 

I think quite a few older boats, including some Springers, were built with these deep well decka.

 

Phil, perhaps finding a boatbuilder who has experience of building shorter boats would be a good starting point. Midland Canal Centre (also known as Stenson Boatbuilders) have produced their "Little Gem" boats for over a decade. I know that they came in 31 foot and 38 foot guises, probably other lengths too. They're not currently advertised on their web site, but doubtless they would build one for you. You could speak to them about incorporating the personalised features which you desire.

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27 minutes ago, Athy said:

I think quite a few older boats, including some Springers, were built with these deep well decka.

 

Phil, perhaps finding a boatbuilder who has experience of building shorter boats would be a good starting point. Midland Canal Centre (also known as Stenson Boatbuilders) have produced their "Little Gem" boats for over a decade. I know that they came in 31 foot and 38 foot guises, probably other lengths too. They're not currently advertised on their web site, but doubtless they would build one for you. You could speak to them about incorporating the personalised features which you desire.

Thanks Athy, I've looked at their website and they seem fine. So they may be worth a look when the time comes. They also seem to do some deep bow wells so may be ok.

 

I've looked at Colecraft also and they seem to do a few deep bow wells judging from their website pics. I kind of like the look of Colecraft bows a little more than Reeves. On another thread someone said that Reeves would have no problem doing other bows and are open to what the customer likes. My only concern is that both Colecraft & Reeves might get a bit pricey even for a hull/sailaway. I dont mind a few quid more but dont want to pay lots of money either. Anyone bought a hull/sailaway of them of recent?

 

Looking on the Collingwood website, they give the price of their widebeams. A 40ft is 20k for hull only so I'm guessing a narrowboat that is less width and a bit shorter would be less, perhaps 16-18k for hull only. So perhaps a sailaway about another 10k on top perhaps I'm thinking.

 

http://www.collingwoodboatbuilders.co.uk/range/widebeam/

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1 minute ago, Phil_B said:

My only concern is that both Colecraft & Reeves might get a bit pricey even for a hull/sailaway.

Unfortunately, if you want a good quality you have to pay for it, both of those you mention are towards the upper end of the quality scale. With a cheap manufacture you will get what you pay for, poor weld lines, wrinkled steel etc etc.

 

3 minutes ago, Phil_B said:

Looking on the Collingwood website, they give the price of their widebeams. A 40ft is 20k for hull only so I'm guessing a narrowboat that is less width and a bit shorter would be less, perhaps 16-18k for hull only. So perhaps a sailaway about another 10k on top perhaps I'm thinking.

I doubt you would save even £1000 between a 40 foot 'fatty' and 34 foot 'skinny'. The majority of the work / cost is in fabricating the complex shapes of the bow and stern, the 'middle bit' is simply welding in a straight, flat, steel plate I would guess that removing 6 foot of plate (base, side, and topsides) would have a material cost of a few £100s* and would not result in much in the way of measurable labour savings 

 

* Looking at Parker Steel website as a private customer buying 'just enough' to add 6 foot of length would cost £395. A boat builder would be paying considerably less than I would.

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18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unfortunately, if you want a good quality you have to pay for it, both of those you mention are towards the upper end of the quality scale. With a cheap manufacture you will get what you pay for, poor weld lines, wrinkled steel etc etc.

 

I doubt you would save even £1000 between a 40 foot 'fatty' and 34 foot 'skinny'. The majority of the work / cost is in fabricating the complex shapes of the bow and stern, the 'middle bit' is simply welding in a straight, flat, steel plate I would guess that removing 6 foot of plate (base, side, and topsides) would have a material cost of a few £100s* and would not result in much in the way of measurable labour savings 

 

* Looking at Parker Steel website as a private customer buying 'just enough' to add 6 foot of length would cost £395. A boat builder would be paying considerably less than I would.

Sure but I'm guessing most boat builders know that if you get less in size then less is the price, i.e that it is driven more by customer perception of what they would be looking to pay by size than the actual economics behind it. I'm guessing the reason you state is why less boatbuilders are openly building the smaller narrowboats. That and a fair amount of customers go for the longer boats anyway. 

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7 minutes ago, Phil_B said:

Sure but I'm guessing most boat builders know that if you get less in size then less is the price

 

Not exactly. Most of the cost of construction is in the bow and stern, the bits that are curved and need time to make. Straight sections of boat are much easier to construct and therefore cheaper

 

Richard

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18 minutes ago, Phil_B said:

Sure but I'm guessing most boat builders know that if you get less in size then less is the price, i.e that it is driven more by customer perception of what they would be looking to pay by size than the actual economics behind it.

I very much doubt that any builder would sell a 30 foot boat at 50% of the price of a 60 foot boat 90% maybe, or they would be making a loss.

 

In this industry buyers pay the price asked by the seller.

Unlike many industries where there is a lot of competition and sellers sell at the price buyers will pay (supermarkets - Aldi - being a prime example) or go out of business.

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On 16/09/2018 at 09:53, Phil_B said:

Thanks Athy, I've looked at their website and they seem fine. So they may be worth a look when the time comes. They also seem to do some deep bow wells so may be ok.

 

I've looked at Colecraft also and they seem to do a few deep bow wells judging from their website pics. I kind of like the look of Colecraft bows a little more than Reeves. On another thread someone said that Reeves would have no problem doing other bows and are open to what the customer likes. My only concern is that both Colecraft & Reeves might get a bit pricey even for a hull/sailaway. I dont mind a few quid more but dont want to pay lots of money either. Anyone bought a hull/sailaway of them of recent?

 

Looking on the Collingwood website, they give the price of their widebeams. A 40ft is 20k for hull only so I'm guessing a narrowboat that is less width and a bit shorter would be less, perhaps 16-18k for hull only. So perhaps a sailaway about another 10k on top perhaps I'm thinking.

 

http://www.collingwoodboatbuilders.co.uk/range/widebeam/

 

As well as making shells for the private market, Reeves used to make shells for many hire fleet operators as well as supplying shells to other boatbuilders for fit out. Indeed they made the shells for Stowe Hill with their distinctive  "pinched between lock gates" josher bow.

 

A common problem with Reeves low well decks is the pipes that transfer water from the well deck (in the absence of scuppers) to the engine room bilge rusting through and letting water into the cabin bilge. This can be costly to fix if the fit out doesn't allow easy access to the well deck drain pipes.

 

 

23 hours ago, RLWP said:

 

Not exactly. Most of the cost of construction is in the bow and stern, the bits that are curved and need time to make. Straight sections of boat are much easier to construct and therefore cheaper

 

Richard

 

I agree. Also the engine and gearbox are relatively expensive and makes up a greater proportion of the overall cost in a shorter boat.

Edited by cuthound
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13 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Indeed they made the shells for Stowe Hill with their distinctive  "pinched between lock gates" josher bow.

 

PLEEEEASE don't perpetuate this silliness. The Reeves/Stowe Hill 'pinched' bows are about as different from a real josher bow as a cruiser stern from a josher bow.

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
Add a bit.
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11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

PLEEEEASE don't perpetuate this silliness. The Reeves/Stowe Hill 'pinched' bows are about as different from a real josher bow as a cruiser stern from a josher bow.

 

 

Squosher bow?

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19 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

A common problem with Reeves low well decks is the pipes that transfer water from the well deck (in the absence of scuppers) to the engine room bilge rusting through and letting water into the cabin bilge. This can be costly to fix if the fit out doesn't allow easy access to the well deck drain pipes.

 

An important accessory is a decent Cratch cover. Our is by A J Canopies and has let very little water into the cratch over the years.

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1 minute ago, Athy said:

Squosher bow?

I call them "Josher Squashers"   very common and not good looking, at least Hudson got the length and shape quite pleasing on his bow, even if the upsweap was possible a touch overdone.

I used to think the Colecraft front was a bit too blunt but it is very practical giving a good gas bottle locker size, but a lot of people like the front of our boat and I can see its relationship to some old working boats. I find the Reeves front a bit odd.

 

.............Dave

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

PLEEEEASE don't perpetuate this silliness. The Reeves/Stowe Hill 'pinched' bows are about as different from a real josher bow as a cruiser stern from a josher bow.

 

 

 

I'm not perpetuating this silliness, and from my previous posts on this style of  bow have made it clear they are nothing like a real Josher bow, but that is what Stowe Hill calls them and they are very distinctive in an ugly way.

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Is your boat an urgent requirement? If not, perhaps you could wait a couple of years and have your perfectly designed boat 3D printed?

On a more serious note, I think your main problem is thinking that a bespoke "anything" is not going to cost at least 100% more than a more orthodox design.

Be aware that as you describe your desires, the slightest severity in the tone of your responses will  have some of the hypersensitive residents on this forum rebounding a hundred-fold.

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2 hours ago, cuthound said:

A common problem with Reeves low well decks is the pipes that transfer water from the well deck (in the absence of scuppers) to the engine room bilge rusting through and letting water into the cabin bilge. This can be costly to fix if the fit out doesn't allow easy access to the well deck drain pipes.

I have a Reeves Hull with a deep well deck - it has a foot square of the floor in one of the lockers which has been dropped a couple of inches in which a bilge pump sits to remove any water - as far as i can tell, this is original and not a modification. 

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8 minutes ago, rawsondsr said:

I have a Reeves Hull with a deep well deck - it has a foot square of the floor in one of the lockers which has been dropped a couple of inches in which a bilge pump sits to remove any water - as far as i can tell, this is original and not a modification. 

 

Interesting, all of the Reeves boats with a deep well deck have had two pipes, covered in gauze, flush with the deck floor either side of the front doors, including some post 2005 ones.

 

Does anyone else have anyone deep well decked Reeves boat with a recessed bilge pump? It is certainly a neater solution than low level pipes between well deck and engine  bilge.

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Having looked at the Colecraft web site they are certainly capable of using CAD drawings to fabricate a boat. I hadn't realised that they also made agricultural machinery. Their web site show CNC machines in operation. So Colecraft are the answer to the OPs problem. However they will not be cheap.

 

PS I have no connection with Colecraft other than owning a 62ft boat built by them about 30 years ago.

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8 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Is your boat an urgent requirement? If not, perhaps you could wait a couple of years and have your perfectly designed boat 3D printed?

On a more serious note, I think your main problem is thinking that a bespoke "anything" is not going to cost at least 100% more than a more orthodox design.

Be aware that as you describe your desires, the slightest severity in the tone of your responses will  have some of the hypersensitive residents on this forum rebounding a hundred-fold.

I don't consider myself hyper anything, but the OP is downright disrespectful.

He needs to learn some manners imho.

Edited by LadyG
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12 minutes ago, Richard T said:

Having looked at the Colecraft web site they are certainly capable of using CAD drawings to fabricate a boat. I hadn't realised that they also made agricultural machinery. Their web site show CNC machines in operation. So Colecraft are the answer to the OPs problem. However they will not be cheap.

 

PS I have no connection with Colecraft other than owning a 62ft boat built by them about 30 years ago.

Do their boats handle well?

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8 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I don't consider myself hyper anything, but the OP is downright disrespectful.

He needs to learn some manners imho.

Do you know how disrespectful it is to be told that your carefully detailed CAD drawings will disrespected and insult given in the form of a fag packet drawing. We have seen from one poster on here how his own measured drawings were disrespected and he ended up getting something not quite what he asked for. Like it or not time moves on and so does developments, some people can move with the times others can't. It doesn't necessarily have to do with age, some older folk can be more on top of developments than younger people. A lot of the time it is down to ignorance and not wanting to learn. 

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4 minutes ago, Phil_B said:

Do you know how disrespectful it is to be told that your carefully detailed CAD drawings will disrespected and insult given in the form of a fag packet drawing. We have seen from one poster on here how his own measured drawings were disrespected and he ended up getting something not quite what he asked for. Like it or not time moves on and so does developments, some people can move with the times others can't. It doesn't necessarily have to do with age, some older folk can be more on top of developments than younger people. A lot of the time it is down to ignorance and not wanting to learn. 

I was using CAD on JANET in 1989, before you were born I suspect, but steel fabrication is little to do with CAD.

 

Edited by LadyG
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