is it possible to lower a boats airdraft by heavily ballasting?

[Tara1234]

Hey so im thinking of getting a project 31 in the future. However its airdraft is about 8 ft. The K and A has many bridges that are 7 and a half foot. So I was thinking could I traverse the K and A by putting a load of bricks into the back and weigh it down by about a foot. This type of boat is fairly high in the water and id like to have a nice size boat with the ability to go to europe but still have some options back in the uk.

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes it is possible but you will need a heck of a lot of bricks.

My fuel tank takes 2800 litres (about 2.5 tonnes) and the difference between empty and full is less than 12" 

Taking a standard brick at 4lbs weight there are 560 to the tonne.

You will need something like 1200+ bricks - or to put it another way 3 pallet loads.

 

Do you have sufficient freeboard to drop your draft by 12" ?

 

Obviously I have no knowledge of your sailing abilities or experience but are you aware that the English Channel is the busiest waterway in the world, and that there are huge fines for contravening traffic regulations. Do you have VHF radio and have the 'ships licence' in addition to your operators certificate ?

Once you arrive in 'Europe' you need to have approved sailing qualifications to enter the French (for example) waterways.

You must ensure that you clean out the red diesel tanks before leaving the UK, and fill up with tax-paid white diesel (Red diesel is not legal in Europe)

 

Continental boating is much more regulated than the UK and no doubt will become much less welcoming to UK boater after March 2019.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[cereal tiller]

11 minutes ago, Tara1234 said:

Hey so im thinking of getting a project 31 in the future. However its airdraft is about 8 ft. The K and A has many bridges that are 7 and a half foot. So I was thinking could I traverse the K and A by putting a load of bricks into the back and weigh it down by about a foot. This type of boat is fairly high in the water and id like to have a nice size boat with the ability to go to europe but still have some options back in the uk.

The Project has outdrive(S) which will easily go aground on the shallower sections of the K and A.Ballasting down by a Foot will likely have the Prop(S) wrecked in no time at all.

[Naughty Cal]

2 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

The Project has outdrive(S) which will easily go aground on the shallower sections of the K and A.Ballasting down by a Foot will likely have the Prop(S) wrecked in no time at all.

You can of course lift the drives in shallower water but then the handling won't be as good.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, cereal tiller said:

The Project has outdrive(S) which will easily go aground on the shallower sections of the K and A.Ballasting down by a Foot will likely have the Prop(S) wrecked in no time at all.

I hadn't even got to draft.

The project 31 has a draft of 2' 11", add another 12" and you are at 4 feet.

 

The K&A is (supposedly) maintained to a depth of 1.1 metres (3.5 feet)

[Momac]

Putting bricks in the back will not do a lot for the air draft as the highest part is in the middle.

Do you really expect to get to Europe in a Project 31 ?

[Naughty Cal]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

Putting bricks in the back will not do a lot for the air draft as the highest part is in the middle.

Do you really expect to get to Europe in a Project 31 ?

People have gone across in worse vessels.

 

Doesn't make it a sensible choice of course.

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I hadn't even got to draft.

The project 31 has a draft of 2' 11", add another 12" and you are at 4 feet.

 

The K&A is (supposedly) maintained to a depth of 1.1 metres (3.5 feet)

I wonder if that is likd the 5ft the Fossditch is allegedly dredged too?

[LadyG]

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by LadyG

[Momac]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Continental boating is much more regulated than the UK and no doubt will become much less welcoming to UK boater after March 2019.

I wonder if things will change  a bit but not sure Brexit will make much difference.

 

Actually you can go with red diesel but you need recent receipts to prove a full tanks  worth is fully duty paid if you want to go to Belgium. Other countries don't seem so picky.

Cleaning out all traces of the red dye from the tank would in any case be difficult .

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

People have gone across in worse vessels.

 

Doesn't make it a sensible choice of course.

I wonder if that is likd the 5ft the Fossditch is allegedly dredged too?

Probably - as you know I draw 4' 6" and cannot get down the (allegedly) 5' deep FossDitch

[Momac]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Probably - as you know I draw 4' 6" and cannot get down the (allegedly) 5' deep FossDitch

You are not missing much.

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, MartynG said:

You are not missing much.

 

 

 

 

I know - when we went down & onto the Witham (with the NB) the most exciting things were :

1) Counting the dead & floating deer

2) Comparing the tops of telegraph poles (and playing spot the difference - as you can only see the top 3 or 4 feet over the flood banks)

[Neil2]

I can't think where the low bridges are on the K&A but I'd be surprised if the limit really is 7'6"..?  Whether a boat like the Project 31 could safely navigate this canal is more down to draught I reckon but surely someone must have done it in this type of vessel.  Maybe one of the motor boat forums could help.  

 

I do recall someone doing the Rochdale in a Princess 32 some years ago which seems to me a much more challenging proposition.  

 

  

[Bee]

Well looking at the picture I'm sure that glazed screen could be made to take down or hinge. I know nothing about the boat and its channel crossing abilities but it would be OK in Europe and also the Thames and its connections, (probably not the R. Wey)  not sure about above Oxford, that stupid low bridge at Osney could be a problem but you could get to  the Severn, Avon to Stratford and a few connections via Sharpness as well as the S. Wales harbours. I've done nearly all that with a 10mx3.4m boat with a folding wheelhouse as well as many hundreds of miles in Europe -don't even risk red diesel and clean the fuel tank before venturing out onto rivers never mind the sea. (We crossed the channel on a lorry) We did some miles on the Rhine this year and the wash from big ships can be fearsome. Go for it!

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, Bee said:

Well looking at the picture I'm sure that glazed screen could be made to take down or hinge. I know nothing about the boat and its channel crossing abilities but it would be OK in Europe and also the Thames and its connections, (probably not the R. Wey)  not sure about above Oxford, that stupid low bridge at Osney could be a problem but you could get to  the Severn, Avon to Stratford and a few connections via Sharpness as well as the S. Wales harbours. I've done nearly all that with a 10mx3.4m boat with a folding wheelhouse as well as many hundreds of miles in Europe -don't even risk red diesel and clean the fuel tank before venturing out onto rivers never mind the sea. (We crossed the channel on a lorry) We did some miles on the Rhine this year and the wash from big ships can be fearsome. Go for it!

The boat shown is actually a 'new-build' to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Project 31.

 

I can think of many more suitable boats for crossing the Channel, but trying to get one boat that does both the Canals and the Sea is always going to be a compromise, and as the risks are greater I take a sea-going boat and compromise on its canal capabilities.

[Mike Adams]

Outdrives on any canal boat are bad news and particularly if they are near the bottom and two makes it worse. Steering is also much harder at low speed. Same applies in Europe. Unless you enjoy going to sea it is much cheaper to take a boat of that size on a truck after you have paid for all the stuff needed for  sea passages. Lots of other fibreglass boats are more suitable for wide canals and give much more accommodation such as the caribbean type and are common in France. You can arrive in France with red diesel in your tanks but need to buy white and keep the receipts, the problem is getting rid of all the red within a reasonable time say 6 months. With an airdraft of 2.8m we can go everywhere in France.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

You can arrive in France with red diesel in your tanks

But - Belgium is a little less forgiving (having fined several boats and are now apparently awaiting a European Court Of Justice Ruling

 

On 26 September 2017 the RYA secured confirmation from the Belgian Ministry of Finance that controls in Belgium for red diesel remain suspended until further notice. [See update]

It is unlawful in Belgium to use red diesel for propelling a private pleasure craft. Boating in Belgian waters with marked 'red' diesel in your fuel tanks put you at risk of receiving a fine (of €500 - €5000). This has been the case since the beginning of this decade.

However the Belgian Government has now acknowledged that its approach is different to that of its near neighbours (France and the Netherlands). Belgian customs has therefore suspended all controls [for marked 'red' diesel in pleasure craft] until further notice. 

It should however be noted that this is not a change to the Belgian legislation. It is simply a statement that the law will not be enforced in the short term. As a key stakeholder in this developing situation, we have been assured that the RYA will be notified if the situation in Belgium is to change. 

In order to maintain a clear picture of this developing situation, we would urge anyone who is fined in Belgium for having red diesel in their tanks to email boating.abroad@rya.org.uk giving as much detail as possible.

[Momac]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But - Belgium is a little less forgiving (having fined several boats and are now apparently awaiting a European Court Of Justice Ruling

 

Quite simply solved by not going to Belgium by boat - or by any other form of travel come to that.

[Naughty Cal]

9 hours ago, MartynG said:

Quite simply solved by not going to Belgium by boat - or by any other form of travel come to that.

Our friends took their Sealine 310 throughv Belguim on their way from Holland to France. At no point was the diesel in their tank, which would have still been partially red diesel, questioned.

 

They found Belguim to be very friendly towards UK boaters despite the scare stories in the press.

 

We are looking forward to our boating holiday over there next Easter.

11 hours ago, MartynG said:

You are not missing much.

 

 

 

 

Other than lots of good pubs.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

Other than lots of good pubs.

And, Chocolate.

And, of course Antwerp knocks Amsterdam in second place as Drugs capital of Europe

And, of course Antwerp is home to Europe's largest brothel

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/01/antwerp-belgium-cocaine-capital-drugs-trade-pigeons

[Naughty Cal]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And, Chocolate.

And, of course Antwerp knocks Amsterdam in second place as Drugs capital of Europe

And, of course Antwerp is home to Europe's largest brothel

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/01/antwerp-belgium-cocaine-capital-drugs-trade-pigeons

We are giving Antwerp a miss and heading to Bruges and Ghent 

[Movin' on]

14 hours ago, LadyG said:

 

Love it thanks for sharing 

[Peter X]

From the depth figures given I doubt you could put in much ballast and still get along the K&A without scraping the bottom. I'd do the calculation in metric; a good formula is that if you add 1kg for every 10x10cm (or 4x4") of your area at the waterline, you'll go down 10cm (4").

 

However, you can as has been said hope to reduce your air draught. From LadyG's photo it looks to me as if the 7'6" is to the top of that mast thing, so if you can get that down (and that aerial on the cabin roof), that may be enough to get you under most bridges. If that cabin roof folds down I'd be very surprised if you had a problem even at Osney.

 

That boat looks to me to be more suited to rivers and coastal trips than to the canals, I suspect the fuel economy wouldn't be good? I can sort of believe it would be OK to go to sea in if you have the necessary equipment and know what you're doing, but others on this forum who know much more than I can advise you on that.

[Alan de Enfield]

This advert makes mention  that she has cruised up the K&A and cleared the low bridges.

 

https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Cruiser/marine-projects-project-31/204443

 

With her low air draft this boat has taken us under the low bridges on the Worcestershire Avon and the Kennet and Avon canal, not to mention chalking up many sea miles in the Bristol Channel, where her weight and hull design provide good stability in a lumpy sea.

[Momac]

9 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Other than lots of good pubs.

On the Fossdyke?

There is the Swan at Torksey which is accessible from the pontoon on the Trent.

The only other half decent pub I know of on the Fossdyke is the Pyewipe but I did have near death experience after eating there 20 odd years ago . I did rustle up the courage to return there  for a meal  a couple of years ago. After the 20 year gap it had not been demolished as I had hoped . However  things had improved.

We will save the Witham pubs until we are very old and perhaps revert to a smaller  boat.