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Water pump oddness..


lampini

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Hello peeps... odd goings on here..

Had the kitchen lights on - LEDs drain of  0.3a according to the NASA BM1 monitor. Turned the tap on to do the washing up and the kitchen Lights flickered badly - got the OH to turn on the tap whilst I stared at the monitor.. the V went down from 13.1V to 10.3V and the alarm bell icon came on - never seen that before!!

Amps discharge went up to 5.7 and rising... upon shutting off the pump (closing the tap) the V returned to 13.1 and the alarm bell icon went away. 

We are on a shoreline and the batteries are in reasonable health and showing 97% charge.. the pump does seem to be “running on” a tad more after the  tap is turned off... does the panel think there may be a blockage in the pre-pump strainer or is my water pump nackered? (Ironically just picked up a spare - just in case!) Jabsco par-max 3.5... 

never had the strainer apart - probably a mistake- do I need to shut the valve just after the water tank to do this? Does a bunch of water piss out of it even if I shut the supply off... arse.... scared of flooding the place! 

ETA have looked at the pump and there are no leaks and the casing isn’t hot... 

Edited by lampini
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It is usually the large black or red handled switch that turns the battery power off to all the users in the boat such as lights, pumps, fridges, toilets, etc.

 

5 amp seems OK for a water pump so the pump does not appear to be taking too much power. The pump often runs on after the tap is closed as it repressurises the accumulator.

27 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I suspect it is more like;y to be an electrical problem but what I have no idea.  Sounds as if it might be  a dodgy master switch or dirty battery terminals but why the charger could not cover the load I have no idea.

But if the charger is on the battery side of the master switch then it will not see a voltage drop so will not cover this.

Edited by PeterF
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We were only running .1a of lights and 6a max fridge.. 

 

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Spectacularly goosed set of batteries, is my provisional diagnosis. Perhaps revealed by a no-longer-working shoreline battery charger.

 

 

We have no battery charger connected Mike - solar panels keep batts topped up... 

Batteries seemed fine  - can they  “goose” in half a day? 

Edited by lampini
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1 minute ago, lampini said:

We were only running .1a of lights and 6a max fridge.. 

 

 

Exactly. I reckon your shoreline batery charger has been ON for ever and masking a dead set of batts, and now the carger has failed and the batts by themselves are taking up the strain, are revealed to be barely capable of running your water pump and fridge together.

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1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

As I said in the other place, an electrical issue probably battery connections. Probably not the master switch because the NASA is likely connected the battery side of that.

 

OMG it’s like you’re here in the boat with us Nick - we was just trying to work out where in the sequence the NASA was connected... :-0

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

The inverter shouldn't trip out at 12.7V for low voltage cutout - that's fully charged for lead acid batteries.

 

You said it flashed overload alarm - is your immersion heater on or do you have a dead short somewhere on the 240V circuit?

Deffo no immersion on... short - dunno mr Buscuits... 

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2 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Poor connection on the domestic distribution board?

Gonna pull out the fridge and check it all over - in the morning! If all else fails we have a pet boat electrician just up the cut from us.... 

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But some serious measuring with a DVM will reveal. Measure the battery terminal voltage with the pump running. If it is up above 12.0v your batts are probably fine. If it is falling to your BMV indicated 10.3v then new batts are required.

No need to pull the fridge out!

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5 minutes ago, lampini said:

Aaargh.... plz nooooo.... ! 

Not saying (yet!) that this is your correct fix - our batteries were on the boat when we bought it and had been badly abused by then.  Decent solar and low usage gave us 3 years out of them, but the fridge running flat out overnight in 30 degree temperatures finished them off during the heatwave.  

 

Are you able to check the individual batteries?  Handheld voltmeter & a torch, disconnect all the batteries and check that one of them is not significantly lower voltage than all the others.

 

I'm wondering if one battery has died on you.

Edited by TheBiscuits
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5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

We had exactly this problem earlier this year, and the correct fix was to give tayna batteries £500 for new ones!

 

Did yours go from pretty ok to utter pants in half a day tho? I say we’re on shoreline but I do turn it over to inverter most days whilst out at work and they seem to always b charged when I get home...

so whilst I’m not sure about the NASA readings on the % side (85% of WHAT exactly, eh? 85% of sweet fanny-all?) surely the 12.7V should be reasonable? Would this still read the same if just ONE of the batteries were sh*gged? 

And oui, monsieur les biscuits - I shall do that test tomorrow, the leisure batteries aren’t TOO inaccessible (once we move the fridge out of the engine room!) So.. isolate everything, disconnect and test - I have a meter.. thanks for your suggestions! ?

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1 hour ago, lampini said:

the pump does seem to be “running on” a tad more after the  tap is turned off..

 

I had this fault and apart from a very slight water leak and limescale build up there was a corroded electrical connection t the pressure switch. 

All cleaned up with a new electrical connector an new o rings on the plumbing to the fittings on the pump and it has been fine since.

 

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9 minutes ago, lampini said:

Did yours go from pretty ok to utter pants in half a day tho? I say we’re on shoreline but I do turn it over to inverter most days whilst out at work and they seem to always b charged when I get home...

Are you saying that you disconnect (turn off) the shoreline and switch over to the Inverter 'most days' and charge the batteries from the inverter ?

 

Or, do you mean that you change the land line over from supplying your power requirements and divert it to a battery charger (is your inverter a 'combi' unit also incorporating a battery charger)?

 

I'm a little lost by the terminology "I say we’re on shoreline but I do turn it over to inverter most days whilst out at work"

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10 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I had this fault and apart from a very slight water leak and limescale build up there was a corroded electrical connection t the pressure switch. 

All cleaned up with a new electrical connector an new o rings on the plumbing to the fittings on the pump and it has been fine since.

 

Hmmm - doesn’t explain the inverter suddenly not being able to cope with a 9.5a draw and alarming - water pump wasn’t turned on during this test...

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Are you saying that you disconnect (turn off) the shoreline and switch over to the Inverter 'most days' and charge the batteries from the inverter ?

 

Or, do you mean that you change the land line over from supplying your power requirements and divert it to a battery charger (is your inverter a 'combi' unit also incorporating a battery charger)?

 

I'm a little lost by the terminology "I say we’re on shoreline but I do turn it over to inverter most days whilst out at work"

Ah, we have solar panels and shoreline only, so when I throw the switch to inverter and turn it on during the day, it’s only the solar that keeps the batteries charged - v simple nikkai 600w inverter..

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4 minutes ago, lampini said:

Did yours go from pretty ok to utter pants in half a day tho? I say we’re on shoreline but I do turn it over to inverter most days whilst out at work and they seem to always b charged when I get home...

so whilst I’m not sure about the NASA readings on the % side (85% of WHAT exactly, eh? 85% of sweet fanny-all?) surely the 12.7V should be reasonable? Would this still read the same if just ONE of the batteries were sh*gged? 

And oui, monsieur les biscuits - I shall do that test tomorrow, the leisure batteries aren’t TOO inaccessible (once we move the fridge out of the engine room!) So.. isolate everything, disconnect and test - I have a meter.. thanks for your suggestions! ?

Sadly yes.  We CC so we don't ever use a shoreline, and the batteries were doing everything we expected, well charged with long cruising days and solar in the glorious sunshine.  Everything was as expected, and one evening the lights flickered when we ran the tap.

 

Of course it was the weekend so getting delivery of new batteries was going to be a few days.  Inverter and fridge off immediately to reduce power load, candles / AA battery powered lights as much as we could, trying not to use any electricity after 8PM - even water from a gallon container for brews.

 

The following morning the voltage on the bank had dropped to 10.5V ish.  I split the bank as described earlier, and one battery was D-E-D dead and the other was walking wounded.  I then gave tayna some money, and spent two days on a 24 hour mooring next to a shower block and a tap.

 

Full marks to tayna though - the delivery driver brought 120 Kg of batteries down the towpath on a pallet and dropped it with one corner touching my boat!

 

 

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