Petronella?

[Mike J Lewis]

Hello all,

My name is Mike, and where I'm not new to boating I am new to historic narrow boats.

I recently purchased a classic narrow boat, described as a custom Bantock pre dating the 1900's, this may be correct, the manufacturer is stated as Harris of Bumblehole, this I believe to be right, with an index reg number of 51867 and a BCN 137 she is named Petronella and is powered by a National 2 cylinder DM2 which the broker had dated as 1905, yes I know that's not correct, more likely to be around 1931/2 from advice received at Alvcote Marina show recently. 

Heres the point, I would like to find as much information as possible about her as I commence the refit, things like is that her original name, what company she worked for, her original colours and so on. Anyone in particular I should contact, and importantly who's the mechanic for the engine works and timing 

Any advice greatfully received, thanks in advance Mike 

[pete harrison]

46 minutes ago, Mike J Lewis said:

Hello all,

My name is Mike, and where I'm not new to boating I am new to historic narrow boats.

I recently purchased a classic narrow boat, described as a custom Bantock pre dating the 1900's, this may be correct, the manufacturer is stated as Harris of Bumblehole, this I believe to be right, with an index reg number of 51867 and a BCN 137 she is named Petronella and is powered by a National 2 cylinder DM2 which the broker had dated as 1905, yes I know that's not correct, more likely to be around 1931/2 from advice received at Alvcote Marina show recently. 

Heres the point, I would like to find as much information as possible about her as I commence the refit, things like is that her original name, what company she worked for, her original colours and so on. Anyone in particular I should contact, and importantly who's the mechanic for the engine works and timing 

Any advice greatfully received, thanks in advance Mike 

I do not know much about these boats but I found an old receipt under a fridge magnet and on the back was a few details:

 

No boat can be a Bantock and built by Harris of Bumblehole as these were two totally separate builders. The word Bantock is banded about freely nowadays to describe almost any iron boat built for use on the B.C.N..

 

I am not aware of any evidence to prove that PETRONELLA is any older than 1921, and B.C.N. 137 is accredited to the District Iron and Steel Company Ltd., Smethwick and was an open (cabinless) day boat - i.e. a typical B.C.N. day boat that has similarities to a floating skip and used locally. Consequently PETRONELLA did not have a name but in did have a fleet number, No. 6. 

 

My records suggest that this boat ended up in the fleet of Noah Hingley and Sons Ltd. before being sold off to Floating Homes Ltd. in 1961 for conversion to a house boat on the Basingstoke Canal.

 

This boat had become the boat it is now by 1995, with the National coming out of the wooden B.C.N. Tug JOAN II. The serial number of this National (assuming I have the correct number) suggests an engine build date some time after the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. motors of the late 1930's, and the British Waterways Board index number can be dated to 1992 (but previously on the Basingstoke Canal so 1992 suggests the date that PETRONELLA came back to the canals).

 

I hope this helps a little, and I probably have more somewhere 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by pete harrison

[alan_fincher]

See Mike - I told you at Alvecote that Pete Harrison would be able to correct some of the more "inventive" history that came with the boat's paperwork!

Good to meet you, and apologies for whatever it was going on at the time that meant I had to keep the conversation quite short.

[zenataomm]

I'm surprised your surveyor didn't pick up on the Bantock versus Harris Brothers claim, unless of course he turned up to do the job in in his E Type Combine Harvester.

[Leo No2]

Was up the Basingstoke at Woodham on the 'long term' residential moorings but then moved to the weir stream below Papercourt Lock on the Wey when in the ownership of the lovely (and excellent fender maker) Peter Young who sadly died a year or so ago.  Image attached (sorry it is so small) of Petronella at a Bridge Barn event on the Basingstoke in probably about 2005.

 

 

[pete harrison]

20 minutes ago, Leo No2 said:

Was up the Basingstoke at Woodham on the 'long term' residential moorings but then moved to the weir stream below Papercourt Lock on the Wey when in the ownership of the lovely (and excellent fender maker) Peter Young who sadly died a year or so ago.  Image attached (sorry it is so small) of Petronella at a Bridge Barn event on the Basingstoke in probably about 2005.

 

I am quite confident that the image above is a modern pleasure boat and not the PETRONELLA being discussed in this thread, there being several boats with this name 

[Sea Dog]

30 minutes ago, Leo No2 said:

Was up the Basingstoke at Woodham on the 'long term' residential moorings but then moved to the weir stream below Papercourt Lock on the Wey when in the ownership of the lovely (and excellent fender maker) Peter Young who sadly died a year or so ago.  Image attached (sorry it is so small) of Petronella at a Bridge Barn event on the Basingstoke in probably about 2005.

 

 

That's not the same boat as shown in the OP's photos.

 

 

ETA: As Pete said above - and I'd take his opinion over mine! 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Sea Dog

[mark99]

I used to see this boat out and about chugging the Wey.  It's now in Pyrford Marina as I saw it Saturday and I assume that's where it was brokered. The former owner always seemed pleasant and the engine sounded nice.

[Mike J Lewis]

Thank you for the info Peter Harrison anything else you could find would be really useful, I intend to put her back to original colours and signage if possible.

I had seen Petronella on my travels along the Wey, but did not know Peter, fellow boaters have helped to fill in some of the local blanks, such as, she was rescued half sunk from the Basingstoke and Peter has done great work to bring her to where she is now.

Thanks everyone else for your contributions, someone good at Nationals would also be handy, I have some leads from the lovely folk at Alvecote, which I'm in the process of following up, thank you all, but again any advice greatfully received 

Hi mark99, yeah I've bought her and she's in the marina with a poorly engine at the moment 

[roland elsdon]

Nice looking boat and engine. However I think you are missing some of peters message. She was a) open and b) cabin less so you have nothing to do to put her back to colours and signage other than coat the hull in black tar.

 

on the other hand you have rather a nice shaped boat ( love the back) as a blank canvas to which you can encorporate any information or numbering you like.

thats the beauty of a boat like that you are not hidebound by tradition, unless you really want to cut the top off throw the engine in the bin, buy a mule and fill the boat with , well possibly anything from aggregates to night soil. Our butty spent a lot of its life with no cabin and full of steel tubes. Not an exotic life, of travelling roses and castles and gay painting.

[Jrtm]

engine looks like a converted stationary engine thats been mated with a jp2.

[Derek R.]

As has been mentioned, a hull of character and heavy use, and the rear end is singularly attractive. As being owned at one time by the District Iron & Steel Company, an alternative name might be DISC, with a dot between the letters to get the curious asking questions.

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Derek R. said:

As has been mentioned, a hull of character and heavy use, and the rear end is singularly attractive. As being owned at one time by the District Iron & Steel Company, an alternative name might be DISC, with a dot between the letters to get the curious asking questions.

Or perhaps " DISCO."

 

Add some flashing lights and a dance floor under the cloths and...

Edited September 5, 2018 by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect

[X Alan W]

Was it composite construction with a wooden bottom & bottom strake in times past?

[pete harrison]

21 hours ago, Mike J Lewis said:

Thank you for the info Peter Harrison anything else you could find would be really useful,

I have just found this under my carpet being used as underlay, the left table being B.C.N. 137 so represents PETRONELLA when it was District Iron and Steel Co. Ltd. day boat No. 6 - the right hand table is B.C.N. 138 and is not relevant to this thread:

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by pete harrison

[pete harrison]

5 hours ago, X Alan W said:

Was it composite construction with a wooden bottom & bottom strake in times past?

If I were a betting man I would suggest this was an iron bottomed boat 

[Derek R.]

Underneath the carpet, under a fridge magnet - where next - behind the spare toilet roll? You do make oi Larf . . .

[roland elsdon]

3 hours ago, pete harrison said:

I have just found this under my carpet being used as underlay, the left table being B.C.N. 137 so represents PETRONELLA when it was District Iron and Steel Co. Ltd. day boat No. 6 - the right hand table is B.C.N. 138 and is not relevant to this thread:

 

Is that the traditional place for a historic document?

[pete harrison]

45 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

Underneath the carpet, under a fridge magnet - where next - behind the spare toilet roll? You do make oi Larf . . .

Is that not how the Izal conversation started in another thread 

 

edit - it always surprises me that anybody reads my ramblings in the first place, but I suppose there is less places to get this information with the passing of each 'researcher'.

Edited September 5, 2018 by pete harrison

[Mike J Lewis]

Thanks again Pete Harrison, have you looked under the biscuit tin, you never know.

Thats very interesting, so N~6 on her side doors is in order I think, some brief googling has shown that Hingley & Sons bought the Midlands canal and coast Co. In 1927, presumably for aiding what looks like a growing concern, would it be safe to assume that this boat would have been part of this fleet, possibly where the engine and back cabin where added ? 

I believe she was always an iron riveted hull, in answer to a previous question, I have some pictures from the survey, will have a look 

[RLWP]

2 minutes ago, Mike J Lewis said:

possibly where the engine and back cabin where added ? 

Not according to post #2:

 

Quote

before being sold off to Floating Homes Ltd. in 1961 for conversion to a house boat on the Basingstoke Canal.

She would have been one of hundreds of open day boats on the BCN, possibly double ended (Pete?)

 

Richard

[Mike J Lewis]

6 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Not according to post #2:

 

It suggests the boat went to Hingley, who, according to some googling, bought the Midlands canal and coast, so it seemed a fair guess that No.6 became a part of that fleet

[max's son]

53 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

Is that not how the Izal conversation started in another thread 

 

edit - it always surprises me that anybody reads my ramblings in the first place, but I suppose there is less places to get this information with the passing of each 'researcher'.

Dad always tried to share his knowledge and it was amazing what we found emptying his house, things he had written down, not sure when he did it going to work early morning coming home late (traveling from Worcester to Darlaston) restoring / building boats and steam locos to restoring canals. Pete please keep rambling and ignore those who don't understand the information your sharing. (please repost your painted table picture be good to compare with my sisters)

[RLWP]

6 minutes ago, Mike J Lewis said:

It suggests the boat went to Hingley, who, according to some googling, bought the Midlands canal and coast, so it seemed a fair guess that No.6 became a part of that fleet

More likely is that the 1961 conversion is where the cabin and engine came from, not being another day boat in a fleet

 

This is what was happening at the time, buying old day boats and converting them into pleasure craft.

[pete harrison]

29 minutes ago, Mike J Lewis said:

some brief googling has shown that Hingley & Sons bought the Midlands canal and coast Co. In 1927, presumably for aiding what looks like a growing concern, would it be safe to assume that this boat would have been part of this fleet, possibly where the engine and back cabin where added ? 

 

13 minutes ago, Mike J Lewis said:

It suggests the boat went to Hingley, who, according to some googling, bought the Midlands canal and coast, so it seemed a fair guess that No.6 became a part of that fleet

Noah Hingley did have an involvement with Midlands and Coast, with boats passing backward and forward between their fleets. Noah Hingley operated predominantly day boats and a couple of tugs whereas Midlands and Coast were mostly long distance family type boats - and they operated independently of one another. I have every confidence that No. 6 operated within Noah Hingley's day boat fleet servicing his foundries in the Black Country.