Outboards and battery charging

[rasputin]

I have 2x 12L tanks and 2x 5L jerrycans to take to the petrol station

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, rasputin said:

I have 2x 12L tanks and 2x 5L jerrycans to take to the petrol station

And if you fill those both you and the petrol station are breaking the law.

If 'the worst' happened and you lost your boat and the insurers found you had 'excess' petrol on board, you may struggle to get a pay-out.

[Tacet]

3 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

3'9" draft sounds like a very different thing.

aha!  Does anyone have any real world experience of consumption on a canal from a typical small grp like a Norman 25?

I need to turn the clock back a good few years, but an 18hp two stroke on a Norman 17 used a near-ruinous 1 gallon per hour - aka 4.5 litres per hour.  A change to a Honda 75 reduced consumption to a gallon every 6 hours - or thereabouts - aka 0.75 litres per hour.

 

The Honda was one of the first in the country; I recall going  to Uxbridge in around 1972  to collect it.  I still have the engine and its runs OK - but it is no longer used. 

 

 

[rasputin]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And if you fill those both you and the petrol station are breaking the law.

If 'the worst' happened and you lost your boat and the insurers found you had 'excess' petrol on board, you may struggle to get a pay-out.

what are you on about

 

1, 12+12=24, which is less than 30

2, are you saying I am not allowed to fill 2 5L containers at a petrol station?

3, I am only insured 3rd party

4, I don't pay much attention to silly laws, especially those that seemed to be governed by the "your insurance wont pay out" nonsense.

Edited September 4, 2018 by rasputin

[Up-Side-Down]

16 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The simple answer is "it doesn't".

It has a very small alternator (around 7 amp is the usual size) which will charge / recharge the starter battery but is not enough to charge 'domestics' batteries.

You will need to have a solar-array or a generator to keep on top of the charging, unless you plan to live in 'electrical poverty', and not use lights, TV, phone charger, PC etc etc.

 

It can be done but you will need to have a very, very basic electrical system.

 

The other issue is that OBs are petrol powered, petrol is not commonly available on the canal network so you will need to plan your visits everyday to coincide with petrol-stations within walking distance of the canal - again it can be done but it is very restrictive.

 

The maximum legal amount of petrol you can have in cans on a boat is 30 litres so you will be looking for a petrol station most days.

 

The BSS (safety certificate) requirements for petrol engine boats are much higher than diesel engine boats because of the much higher risks involved.

 

If you ask for my opinion then if you want to 'go boating' then buy one with a diesel engine, if you want to spend hours planning routes to pass by petrol stations and hours walking along roads carrying petrol cans then buy a petrol powered boat.

 

Edit to add :

I am not against GRP boats (I currently have two of them) it is just that petrol powered boats are cheap for a reason - want the freedom of boating ? then get a diesel engine boat.

In any Nicholson guide that has been published in the last three years, where 'Garage' is listed against the facilities, it signifies that diesel and petrol are available within easy reach of the waterway. Previous editions could be somewhat more random and the establishment listed might only offer mechanical services.

[ditchcrawler]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And if you fill those both you and the petrol station are breaking the law.

If 'the worst' happened and you lost your boat and the insurers found you had 'excess' petrol on board, you may struggle to get a pay-out.

If he had to much and the boat went up I think it might be hard to prove with whatever evidence is left 

[TheBiscuits]

35 minutes ago, rasputin said:

1, 12+12=24, which is less than 30

+ 5 + 5 = 34 which is more than 30

 

If you don't ever fill both 5L cans when your 12 L tanks are full you are fine - Alan was just commenting because you said you had 34L of petrol storage on your boat.

 

Have you considered an electric drive

 

 

[Mad Harold]

4 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

3'9" draft sounds like a very different thing.

aha!  Does anyone have any real world experience of consumption on a canal from a typical small grp like a Norman 25?

My old Norman 20 used just under 1 litre per hour at canal speeds.  Yamaha four stroke 9.9 hp.

[Mike Richardson]

Six years (1900 miles) with a 7.5 Honda on a 19ft Fairline DeLuxe followed by eleven years (2900 miles) with a Volvo Penta (Honda) 9.9 on a Buckingham 25 worked out, on average, 4.5 to 5 hours per uk gallon. Much the same diesel consumption as I get now with a 20hp Beta in a 35ft steel narrowboat.  I concur with the comments about 2 stroke motors, I would avoid them, in the larger sizes they can seriously damage your wealth.

 

Mike

[rasputin]

37 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

+ 5 + 5 = 34 which is more than 30

 

If you don't ever fill both 5L cans when your 12 L tanks are full you are fine - Alan was just commenting because you said you had 34L of petrol storage on your boat.

 

Have you considered an electric drive

 

 

but, 12+12+5+5 can't=both

 

It would be a v rare thing to have all 4 full at the same time, I usually only have the one 5L can with me anyway, I just put the other one in as a wind up.

[Naughty Cal]

6 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

The OP is based in the West Midlands where these won't go.  Would be a real shame to miss out on the nicest canals in the country for the sake of 2 feet.

I'd go along with that.  There are such things as 4 stroke outboards aren't there?  Are there diesel outboards too?

Which is why I asked where they want to keep the boat.

 

We live in Yorkshire but we don't keep the boat there.

[Tom Morgan]

The boats Naughty Cal provided links to are really nice, but they would stretch my hoped-for budget a bit.  As Dora the Explorer has noted,   they are too wide for the canals around here, so this has prevented any agonising about the extra two or three grand I would need to find!  Thanks everyone for your replies. Each one of them has helped me and I'm taking it all on board (pun intended) and learning a lot.

 

Edit to answer Naughty Cal's question, which I missed earlier.  As my boating expeditions are likely to be relatively short compared to some, at least to begin with, I would like to keep the boat moored here in the Midlands to make it quick and easy to get to when the opportunity arises.   

Edited September 4, 2018 by Tom Morgan

[Naughty Cal]

In which case I know of a chap with a Freeman 22 narrowbeam (canal beam) with a little two cylinder diesel which is for sale.

 

It's got the makings of a lovely little boat with a bit of TLC and time rather then money to make it a cracker. We had a little cruise out on it when when we were in Norfolk.

 

Give Tony Anderson (AKA Tony Tugboat) a call and ask about Black Cat.

[Paul HD]

Hi Tom,

 

I recently bought a 27 foot GRP with a 4 stroke outboard and l love it. 

 

I viewed 3 diesel inboards and one petrol inboard. All great boats (Nauticus) but the engines were too loud. 

 

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, Paul HD said:

Hi Tom,

 

I recently bought a 27 foot GRP with a 4 stroke outboard and l love it. 

 

I viewed 3 diesel inboards and one petrol inboard. All great boats (Nauticus) but the engines were too loud. 

 

It's not the engines per se that are loud. It is the exhaust system used on those Nauticus cruisers which is loud.

[Boater Sam]

For a really cheap boat, ask CRT, they seem to have a lot of GRP cruisers that they have removed from where the last owner abandoned them. They took one from here because the owner displayed a fraudulent licence. It was a good runner at the time, not sunk nor vandalised.

[Mike Hurley]

Easier to clear a fouled prop on an outboard as you can lift it up. My Seamaster had a shaft drive so in the water to clear it most times.

[Paul HD]

38 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

It's not the engines per se that are loud. It is the exhaust system used on those Nauticus cruisers which is loud.

Whatever it is, it is loud and I don't think a different exhaust would of got the levels to something I would of been happy with.

 

I also forgot to mention the vibes on three of them.

[Mike Hurley]

1 minute ago, Paul HD said:

 

 

I also forgot to mention the vibes on three of them.

GRP boats with diesels are real shakers thats what put me off when i tried a few, bought an inboard petrol after that, smooth and quiet.

[Paul HD]

35 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

Easier to clear a fouled prop on an outboard as you can lift it up. My Seamaster had a shaft drive so in the water to clear it most times.

That is an excellent point.

 

[Mike Hurley]

5 minutes ago, Paul HD said:

That is an excellent point.

 

And you know how i know that.?

[Dr Bob]

3 minutes ago, Paul HD said:

That is an excellent point.

 

I would sooner get wet and cold a few times than get badly burnt in a gas explosion. Petrol on boats is a bad idea. You don't see it but when you take the top off the petrol can, all the butanes and heptanes that are in the top of the can pour out and go downwards......and into the cabin area if there is a path that way. Even in winter this is an issue as petrol can have 15% butane content in winter grades.

[Naughty Cal]

37 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

GRP boats with diesels are real shakers thats what put me off when i tried a few, bought an inboard petrol after that, smooth and quiet.

Must be something wrong with ours then as the 170hp diesel in there doesn't shake it at all!

30 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I would sooner get wet and cold a few times than get badly burnt in a gas explosion. Petrol on boats is a bad idea. You don't see it but when you take the top off the petrol can, all the butanes and heptanes that are in the top of the can pour out and go downwards......and into the cabin area if there is a path that way. Even in winter this is an issue as petrol can have 15% butane content in winter grades.

As the chap at Burton Waters found out last year when his petrol boat exploded when refuelling taking out the fuel berth and another boat!

[Mike Hurley]

28 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Must be something wrong with ours then as the 170hp diesel in there doesn't shake it at all!

 

6 cylinder engine?

[Up-Side-Down]

2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

In which case I know of a chap with a Freeman 22 narrowbeam (canal beam) with a little two cylinder diesel which is for sale.

 

It's got the makings of a lovely little boat with a bit of TLC and time rather then money to make it a cracker. We had a little cruise out on it when when we were in Norfolk.

 

Give Tony Anderson (AKA Tony Tugboat) a call and ask about Black Cat.

Tony Tugboats (07810 646733; www.tonytugboats.com/index.html)