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Boatshed Experience


Garyb1307

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35 minutes ago, Garyb1307 said:

Hello Alan,

I do understand your point, however if the boat is not as advertised, not just a little bit, but significantly then they are misrepresenting the item being sold by them.

You cannot just add small print to say that buyer beware, as i have an email from them saying that they believe the seller is accurately representing the boat.

It turns out that he did not accurately represent the boat, far from it, he misled me significantly. However i do not think that there was any collusion and maybe Boatshed were also misled. 

However the moral of this story is that you have zero protection going via a broker and never expect a broker to give you sound advice.

As someone who has never bought or owned a boat before, i feel very let down by Boatshed.

Disgruntled of Moscow...

This is why I think you may be in with a chance

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1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Yes, but the first means the broker is saying it is OK, and the second means the seller says it is OK so no comeback on the broker. 

It disgusts me if that is the case. There must surely be a duty of care on the broker, otherwise the seller could tell the broker to sell a boat but deliver a bus? That said, I can see the similarity between that and house sales.

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9 minutes ago, Traveller said:

It disgusts me if that is the case. There must surely be a duty of care on the broker, otherwise the seller could tell the broker to sell a boat but deliver a bus? That said, I can see the similarity between that and house sales.

Estate Agents are governed by a whole load of legislation, including The Estate Agents Act and The Property Misrepresentation Act. I don’t know of any similar laws relating to boat brokers?

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1 minute ago, Richard10002 said:

Estate Agents are governed by a whole load of legislation, including The Estate Agents Act and The Property Misrepresentation Act. I don’t know of any similar laws relating to boat brokers?

What I meant was that Estate Agents do not take  responsibility either, they sell a house but do not check the fixtures and fittings work! But yes it is perhaps harder for them to get away with things.

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30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I agree and take every opportunity to say so when newbies are told "you have much more security buying from a broker".

 

That is their 'get-out' they have NOT MAKE ANY REPRESENTATION THAT THEY  believe the boat to be as described.

 

 

 

As previously said - I have been there - I feel your pain.

 

The boat I bought (after having a full survey) cost almost £100,000, the survey turned out to be 'surveyor sat in the office and had a tea & bun and asked the broker what they wanted it to say - took legal action. Lawyer said don't waste your money.

 

The boat was owned by the Broker, having taken it in part exchange, however when we started legal action it (amazingly) turned out that the Financial Director of the Broker had purchased it from the Broker, and was therefore selling it as a private individual - Lawyer said don't waste your money.

 

I subsequently found out that the Broker employees had used the boat on many occasions to go over to Dublin for the Weekend - on the last trip both engines had failed and she was drifting towards the rocks - the Coastguard helicopter managed to 'blow' her away from the rocks and back out to sea until the Lifeboat could take a line aboard and tow her back in.

 

Despite a FULL MECHANICAL survey it turned out both Turbo's had blown, the gearbox's stuck in gear and needed a large amount of force to get back into neutral - we 'rammed' a boat in Dun laoghaire (Ireland) as we were trying to moor and couldn't get out of gear.

 

Cost to get he 'usable' but with much more to spend was over £20k.

Never got her completely sorted and sold her a year later and lost over £60,000 (the only boat I have ever sold at a loss)

 

The last 18 boats I have bought (I tend to buy one every year or so and generally have two running at any one time) were bought without a survey, or via a broker (except the one in Croatia)

Goodness, my tale of woe does not seem as bad now...

I used to live in Croatia, Zagreb, it has a beautiful coastline, i spent two weeks down at Pag Island.

Thank you for your much valued feedback.

Seems like using a broker is of no value what so ever, other than giving a misleading perception that you will be given independent advice and will be protected. 

People should be made aware of this, which is unfair on the general consumer and a mine field for newbies.

I will let Trading Standards do their investigation and see what i get in writing from my lawyer.

 

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1 minute ago, Garyb1307 said:

Goodness, my tale of woe does not seem as bad now...

I used to live in Croatia, Zagreb, it has a beautiful coastline, i spent two weeks down at Pag Island.

Thank you for your much valued feedback.

Seems like using a broker is of no value what so ever, other than giving a misleading perception that you will be given independent advice and will be protected. 

People should be made aware of this, which is unfair on the general consumer and a mine field for newbies.

I will let Trading Standards do their investigation and see what i get in writing from my lawyer.

 

Good luck, I really do hope that something works out in your favour.

 

My boat (still with the KR registration)

 

 

IMG_1021.JPG

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11 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Estate Agents are governed by a whole load of legislation, including The Estate Agents Act and The Property Misrepresentation Act. I don’t know of any similar laws relating to boat brokers?

It does seem strange that even Ebay offers protection for its customers if the item for sale is not as advertised, as they too are effectively brokers. Yet boat Brokers can advertise something, add a caveat that they are not liable in any case, then sell something that is not as advertised and walk away with zero responsibility. Kind of odd and something that people should be made aware of. Its not a nice introduction to the boating world to be honest. 

 

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Good luck, I really do hope that something works out in your favour.

 

My boat (still with the KR registration)

 

 

IMG_1021.JPG

Seriously cool boat.

Thank you.

GB

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6 minutes ago, Garyb1307 said:

It does seem strange that even Ebay offers protection for its customers if the item for sale is not as advertised, as they too are effectively brokers. Yet boat Brokers can advertise something, add a caveat that they are not liable in any case, then sell something that is not as advertised and walk away with zero responsibility. Kind of odd and something that people should be made aware of. Its not a nice introduction to the boating world to be honest. 

 

Seriously cool boat.

Thank you.

GB

 

Its a different world - when we agreed to buy the boat, the broker would not agree to sell it to us without a survey, I explained I didn't want a survey, he insisted. Because the boat is so wide (23 feet) there was nowhere in Croatia able to lift her out so he sailed her over to a yard in Italy and had a survey done at his expense. When he was happy he agreed to sell it to us.

We then found that the RCD documentation and VAT paid certificate were missing, so we re-negotiated the price as 'she was illegal' the owner (via the broker) agreed to reduce the price by £80,000 so it became an excellent investment.

 

The seller was in Rijeka

The boat was in Rijeka

The Broker was in Slovakia

We were in the UK

 

We spent some time with the Customs in Rijeka and after a contribution to the 'coffee fund' they produced certified copies of the EU Vat paid Certificate. 

We contacted the manufacturer who were able to provide a copy of the RCD certificate - she was now 'legal' and we could apply to the Croatian Government to have her de-registered.

 

Boaters in the UK have no comprehension how much freedom they have - no licences*, no compulsory insurance*, no mandatory boat registration*, no compulsory Skippers qualifications.

 

* Except on Inland waterways.

 

Please do keep the forum advised of any outcome or any liability accepted by the Broker, it may just help others not to be so trusting, or, give assistance in how to resolve things (if it does go in your favour)

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14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Remember - the SELLER is NOT Boatshed

 

The OP does not seem to grasp this point as far as I can tell.

 

There are two issues getting mixed up here however, it seems to me.

 

1) The Boatshed website says they are brokers which means the purchase contract was with the owner of the boat, not Boatshed. The agency laws apply here IIRC, in that Boatshed are acting as agent for the seller. Everything Boatshed say or do is them acting as a mouthpiece for the seller. So the person to go after is the seller.

 

2) Mis-description in the advert. I think the OP believes that Boatshed being the advertiser,  bear some responsibility for mis-describing the boat and can be held to account on that alone. I think the Boatshed disclaimer protects them as Alan explains. 

 

 

The third possibility which the OP seems to believe is the case is that the Boatshed business itself owned and sold the boat. We know this is not the case from the OP's comments about the owner not turning up to hand over the boat and the keys. 

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10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The OP does not seem to grasp this point as far as I can tell.

 

There are two issues getting mixed up here however, it seems to me.

 

1) The Boatshed website says they are brokers which means the purchase contract was with the owner of the boat, not Boatshed. The agency laws apply here IIRC, in that Boatshed are acting as agent for the seller. Everything Boatshed say or do is them acting as a mouthpiece for the seller. So the person to go after is the seller.

 

2) Mis-description in the advert. I think the OP believes that Boatshed being the advertiser,  bear some responsibility for mis-describing the boat and can be held to account on that alone. I think the Boatshed disclaimer protects them as Alan explains. 

 

But they did send him an email saying the description was correct, IMO that could be his only hope and their downfall

 

The third possibility which the OP seems to believe is the case is that the Boatshed business itself owned and sold the boat. We know this is not the case from the OP's comments about the owner not turning up to hand over the boat and the keys. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

A lot depends on what that email actually says and what disclaimers are contained in the footer. 

 

I suspect it will have no come back on the broker.

That is very true, but if they did give assurance all was well I don't think any disclaimer would get them off the hoke for an out and out lie. I haven't seen the advertisement or the email, nether have I seen the surveyors report on what the actual state of the boat is, so its all just good guessing 

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7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Did they not actually say they believe that the owners details were correct (or words to that effect)

I was going by this, 

but I guess the exact wording will be a big factor, like if they say "they believe the information is correct" of if they say "the information is correct "

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