Boatshed Experience

[Tony Brooks]

27 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

This^^^. We’ve always insisted on email where any kind of contract is involved, meaning there some insurers, for example, we won’t deal with.

Try that with BT. They refuse to respond by letter or email. They know that if they do their shoddy customer service will be  available for all to see. I regret these days they are not an isolated case. It seems there is no need these days to give good customer service, a cheap offer  and  plenty of web stuff always gets another mug.

[Richard10002]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

Try that with BT. They refuse to respond by letter or email. They know that if they do their shoddy customer service will be  available for all to see. I regret these days they are not an isolated case. It seems there is no need these days to give good customer service, a cheap offer  and  plenty of web stuff always gets another mug.

Oops! We are that mug  BT are coming on Thursday to connect us up to their phone and broadband. Chose them because they include BT Sport in their price, which is important because we are also switching from Virgin Media to Sky Q.

 

Fingers are crossed !!

[Naughty Cal]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

A couple of points. 

 

1) Naughty Cal has asserted Boatshed are a broker but offers no evidence to support this. Others say it’s a franchise so each office is a separate business but again, no evidence of which boat shed office is involved so again, no way of establishing if the seller is a boat shed business or they were agents for a private sale.  

 

2) the OP has still not clarified what their sales paperwork says about who they bought the boat from. 

 

3) the OP has implied now this was a small/cheap boat so we may not be talking about a lot of money, so getting lawyers involved may not be viable. Yet a twin engine boat is unlikely to have been cheap. 

 

4) a twin engine boat is unlikely to be a canal boat. 

 

5) their naivety at buying sight unseen feels odd. Is this a wind up? 

It says in the OP it is Boatshed Suffolk.

 

Twin engined boats can be very cheap depending on their condition and if they are petrol or diesel.

 

 

[MtB]

Some interesting stuff about the boatshed business model here:

 

https://www.boatshedbusiness.com/

 

Looks as though each local office is a franchise and each franchise is a broker.

[MtB]

Boatshed website looks slick but isn't very thoroughly proof read. 

 

The page offering detailed information about selling your boat for you is clearly a cut-n-paste cock up. 

 

https://www.boatshed.com/aboutus/sell-my-boat

[Richard10002]

40 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

It says in the OP it is Boatshed Suffolk.

 

Twin engined boats can be very cheap depending on their condition and if they are petrol or diesel.

 

 

Also now reasonably clear that it was purchased from an "owner" who failed to turn up for the handover, and the OPs son had to call at his house for the keys - unless I've misread something.

 

So almost certainly not a boat owned by the boatshed franchisee. I wonder what the price was?

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Boatshed website looks slick but isn't very thoroughly proof read. 

 

The page offering detailed information about selling your boat for you is clearly a cut-n-paste cock up. 

 

https://www.boatshed.com/aboutus/sell-my-boat

Care to elaborate?

I haven't looked that closely, but nothing obvious jumped out at me.

2 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Also now reasonably clear that it was purchased from an "owner" who failed to turn up for the handover, and the OPs son had to call at his house for the keys - unless I've misread something.

 

So almost certainly not a boat owned by the boatshed franchisee. I wonder what the price was?

I'm not seeing any strong evidence that Boatshed franchisees "do a Whilton", and actually sell a stock of boats they have bought in. 

Looks to me that it is just a brokerage.

[Stilllearning]

On 01/09/2018 at 08:06, Garyb1307 said:

Does anyone have experience of buying a boat via boatshed Suffolk. 

I recently purchased a boat and as i live abroad, i had to trust them to a large extent. 

Unfortunately after being assured that all was good, we picked up the boat after purchase and one of the engines does not work, the reverse drive does not work and following independent inspection, we were informed that its in a very bad condition with broken engine mounts, diesel leaks, broken injectors, broken cables, and a host of other problems.

We have asked boatshed for a refund and they have immediately gone legal and refusing to speak to us.

I am not sure what to do, can anyone advise us?

Many Thanks,

G  

On a slightly more positive note, if you are lucky, engine mounts, diesel leaks and new cables should not cost too much to fix or get fixed. Injectors you would likely have had serviced fairly soon too.

It does seem that the best thing is to just accept what has happened and get on with fixing the boat up. More details of it and the faults may get more useful responses from here too.

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

1) Naughty Cal has asserted Boatshed are a broker but offers no evidence to support this. Others say it’s a franchise so each office is a separate business but again, no evidence of which boat shed office is involved so again, no way of establishing if the seller is a boat shed business or they were agents for a private sale. 

 

And I thought we were starting to convince you to read posts before comment!

See original post - Boatshed Suffolk.  As has been said, clearly not a canal boat, (although I do know of at least one narrow boat with two engines!).

[Tigerr]

It doesn't sound like the problems are that serious, should be fixable by any competent boat engineer with an engine hoist.  One thing is certain though - these will not be the last problems the OP will have with this, or any other boat. Boat ownership is all about the next problem, and its cost. In between the problems there is of course some boating, and occasionally everything works just as it should.  

[MtB]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

Care to elaborate?

I haven't looked that closely, but nothing obvious jumped out at me.

 

DId you actually read it?  I'll quote from the page:

 

Before you travel to view a boat, check out all pictures and video of every boat for sale on Boatshed.com. At Boatshed we take all our own pictures and video, so you can see the up to date information and full inventory of each boat.

 

This is the page trying to get you to sell your boat with them. I'm not sure why sellers of boats are likely to be travelling around viewing boats!

[Garyb1307]

On 02/09/2018 at 11:53, alan_fincher said:

I also suspect the OP will have little come back here, but I feel for them, and don't think anything is added by people giving "it's your own fault", answers.

I'm assuming all the assurances they had with the broker were verbal, because I doubt Boatshed will have been daft enough to make claims in writing about the boat that are not true.

If there are letters or emails that make claims that are blatantly untrue, then I'm not totally convinced it would be impossible to pursue a legal claim against them, but you will not get very far I think if you can say no more than "they (verbally) told me this", because all Boatshed have to do is claim they did not.  (Unless you have any independent witness to a conversation, of course).

 

Hi Alan,

Yes, they confirmed in an email that the boat was as advertised, which was well maintained and serviced and mechanically sound. 

I have spoken to both citizens advice and trading standards. So basically, if they are selling something that is not as advertised, they are breaking the law and misleading the consumer. 

Yes, i was somewhat silly to not check the boat first, however i felt assured that using a broker would give me some comfort. 

So at this point, i have appointed lawyers and Trading Standards have taken up the case and are looking into what Boatshed are advertising, as if its not factual and the item for sale is not as advertised, then it is up to Boatshed and not the owner, who failed to turn up to the handover twice and no, we never got a river trial, as he never sent us the keys for the engines until after Boatshed has transferred the ownership to us. 

So imagine how i feel, when i bought a boat as a surprise for my son's 21st Birthday and i ended up with something that has a broken engine, broken drive, and everything else that came with it.

I have heard of such things happening with cars, however i did not think that boat people would act in such a way,

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Garyb1307 said:

So at this point, i have appointed lawyers and Trading Standards have taken up the case and are looking into what Boatshed are advertising, as if its not factual and the item for sale is not as advertised, then it is up to Boatshed

My understanding is that that is not the case UNLESS Boatshed owned the boat.

As a broker, they will have in their small print (something to the effect) "we have not examined the boat and are using information provided by the owner, we strongly recommend that a potential buyer employs a surveyor act on their behalf and ascertain the condition of the boat".

 

I had a similar experience some years ago, appointed a lawyer who told me not to waste any more money as the small print protected them.

It cost me over £20,000 to correct the most urgent problems.

 

Remember - the SELLER is NOT Boatshed.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

My understanding is that that is not the case UNLESS Boatshed owned the boat.

As a broker, they will have in their small print (something to the effect) "we have not examined the boat and are using information provided by the owner, we strongly recommend that a potential buyer employs a surveyor act on their behalf and ascertain the condition of the boat".

 

I had a similar experience some years ago, appointed a lawyer who told me not to waste any more money as the small print protected them.

It cost me over £20,000 to correct the most urgent problems.

 

Remember - the SELLER is NOT Boatshed.

But surly if Boatshed have put in writing that the discription is correct they are opening themselves up for problems regardles who owns it

[tree monkey]

On 02/09/2018 at 11:20, Tony Brooks said:

Try that with BT. They refuse to respond by letter or email. They know that if they do their shoddy customer service will be  available for all to see. I regret these days they are not an isolated case. It seems there is no need these days to give good customer service, a cheap offer  and  plenty of web stuff always gets another mug.

Try working with trees and dealing with BT, completely useless. 

 

There used to be a way of booking someone to take the OHL down, they never came and actually did the job but at least if we damaged the network all we needed to do was ring them " we booked you, you didn't turn up, as suggested we damaged your network, so sort it " that no longer is possible. 

Once we damaged a customer's OHL and he was working abroad, I rang BT and after an hour of being pushed from pillar to post they told me the customer has to book the engineer, I couldn't. I eventually took a cheque personally to the customer to cover the cost, plus a small gesture, it took BT 5 weeks to reconnect him

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

But surly if Boatshed have put in writing that the discription is correct they are opening themselves up for problems regardles who owns it

I am not a lawyer - just someone who has been thru' it.

 

If the seller told Boatshed it was 'all OK' then they simply relayed the information.

If the seller was 'private individual' and was "not selling in the course of a business" then there is no legal come back on him either - Caveat Emptor.

[Traveller]

On 01/09/2018 at 11:31, Arthur Marshall said:

Part of their T&Cs:

" All particulars detailed on Boatshed websites and offices are intended to give a fair description of the vessel but their accuracy cannot be guaranteed, these particulars are not a part of any contract or offer ...The prospective purchaser is strongly recommended to check the particulars and where appropriate, at his own expense, to employ qualified agents to carry out surveys, structural and/or mechanical & electrical."

Don't know what the advertising said but if it implied the boat was in good running order when in fact it was not can they really hide behind the above? Could they not in fact be guilty of misrepresentation, especially if they had never seen the boat running? I bought a boat via Boatshed once and they had all the keys etc and were able to give me a "sea trial", which I followed up by independent survey.

[Alan de Enfield]

Boatshed T&Cs (small print) re condition :

 

The particulars herein are intended to give a fair description of the vessel but are not guaranteed as accurate. They shall not form part of any offer or contract for the sale of the vessel. The prospective purchaser is recommended to independently check the particulars. The vendor is not selling in the course of a business unless otherwise stated. Personal property is excluded from the sale of the vessel unless specifically included in the listing specifications above or in a Purchase Contract. Personal property may be equipment or gear not permanently attached to the vessel including but not limited to: artwork, entertainment equipment, fishing equipment, TV receivers, recreational equipment, kayaks, tools, and personal appliances. Photos that may incidentally depict owners' personal property do not convey that such items are included in the sale of the vessel unless specifically listed herein.

[Traveller]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Boatshed T&Cs (small print) re condition :

 

The particulars herein are intended to give a fair description of the vessel but are not guaranteed as accurate. They shall not form part of any offer or contract for the sale of the vessel. The prospective purchaser is recommended to independently check the particulars. The vendor is not selling in the course of a business unless otherwise stated. Personal property is excluded from the sale of the vessel unless specifically included in the listing specifications above or in a Purchase Contract. Personal property may be equipment or gear not permanently attached to the vessel including but not limited to: artwork, entertainment equipment, fishing equipment, TV receivers, recreational equipment, kayaks, tools, and personal appliances. Photos that may incidentally depict owners' personal property do not convey that such items are included in the sale of the vessel unless specifically listed herein.

There must be a difference between a best endeavours fair description and a downright sloppy/misleading statement of condition based on no substance? The details may not are guaranteed as 100% accurate but there must be some responsibility for the broker to take reasonable care that what is written is based on facts. Saying the boat works when clearly it did/does not cannot be right can it?

[Garyb1307]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am not a lawyer - just someone who has been thru' it.

 

If the seller told Boatshed it was 'all OK' then they simply relayed the information.

If the seller was 'private individual' and was "not selling in the course of a business" then there is no legal come back on him either - Caveat Emptor.

Hello Alan,

I do understand your point, however if the boat is not as advertised, not just a little bit, but significantly then they are misrepresenting the item being sold by them.

You cannot just add small print to say that buyer beware, as i have an email from them saying that they believe the seller is accurately representing the boat.

It turns out that he did not accurately represent the boat, far from it, he misled me significantly. However i do not think that there was any collusion and maybe Boatshed were also misled. 

However the moral of this story is that you have zero protection going via a broker and never expect a broker to give you sound advice.

As someone who has never bought or owned a boat before, i feel very let down by Boatshed.

Disgruntled of Moscow...

[Traveller]

I would still take advice - I just do not believe, from what I have read, that Boatshed are in a position to avoid blame. That have said they believe the seller is accurately representing the boat - on what basis do they believe that? I do hear what Alan says but would push it a little harder - hell it seems they did not even have the keys to the boat!

Edited September 3, 2018 by Traveller
spelling

[Cheese]

I think a broker still has a duty not to misrepresent the facts.  And can be found liable to the purchaser if he does:

- so if the broker knew if was faulty, but claimed it wasn't, he should be liable.

- if the broker passed on incorrect information in good faith (because the seller told him everything was ok) he can still be found liable to the purchaser for misrepresentation.  But he will usually have some  comeback against the seller - e.g. via an indemnity in the selling contract against supplying faulty information.

 

Whether it is worth pursuing legal action against the broker might depend on their finances -with no assets it might be a waste of time, unless the seller can somehow be joined to the action as a third party.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Garyb1307 said:

However the moral of this story is that you have zero protection going via a broker and never expect a broker to give you sound advice.

I agree and take every opportunity to say so when newbies are told "you have much more security buying from a broker".

 

7 minutes ago, Garyb1307 said:

i have an email from them saying that they believe the seller is accurately representing the boat.

That is their 'get-out' they have NOT MAKE ANY REPRESENTATION THAT THEY  believe the boat to be as described.

 

 

 

As previously said - I have been there - I feel your pain.

 

The boat I bought (after having a full survey) cost almost £100,000, the survey turned out to be 'surveyor sat in the office and had a tea & bun and asked the broker what they wanted it to say - took legal action. Lawyer said don't waste your money.

 

The boat was owned by the Broker, having taken it in part exchange, however when we started legal action it (amazingly) turned out that the Financial Director of the Broker had purchased it from the Broker, and was therefore selling it as a private individual - Lawyer said don't waste your money.

 

I subsequently found out that the Broker employees had used the boat on many occasions to go over to Dublin for the Weekend - on the last trip both engines had failed and she was drifting towards the rocks - the Coastguard helicopter managed to 'blow' her away from the rocks and back out to sea until the Lifeboat could take a line aboard and tow her back in.

 

Despite a FULL MECHANICAL survey it turned out both Turbo's had blown, the gearbox's stuck in gear and needed a large amount of force to get back into neutral - we 'rammed' a boat in Dun laoghaire (Ireland) as we were trying to moor and couldn't get out of gear.

 

Cost to get he 'usable' but with much more to spend was over £20k.

Never got her completely sorted and sold her a year later and lost over £60,000 (the only boat I have ever sold at a loss)

 

The last 18 boats I have bought (I tend to buy one every year or so and generally have two running at any one time) were bought without a survey, or via a broker (except the one in Croatia)

[Traveller]

I would like to know the legal difference between "they believe the boat to be as described" and "they believe the seller is accurately representing the boat". Both appear to me to be saying that the boat is believed to be ok.

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, Traveller said:

I would like to know the legal difference between "they believe the boat to be as described" and "they believe the seller is accurately representing the boat". Both appear to me to be saying that the boat is believed to be ok.

Yes, but the first means the broker is saying it is OK, and the second means the seller says it is OK so no comeback on the broker.