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Gas pipes - Grommets/Sleeves required?


Laurence and Isobel

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Hi all,

 

Looking for some advice, currently preparing to install gas system in our boat. 10mm copper pipes will be clipped along under the gunnel, before needing to go through the new kitchen counter top to access the back of the new cooker.

 

Do pipes going through kitchen counters require some sort of protection like a grommet or a sleeve or is it ok to just drill a 10mm hole for the pipe to go through? If they do need protecting, where could we find something of the right size/material?

 

Also if anyone has any idea if the placement of this cooker is ok for BSS? We will be tiling the wall just next to it to protect from heat damage.

 

Pictures attached for clarity, any help really appreciated, particularly those in the know with BSS/Gas safety

 

Many thanks

Screen Shot 2018-08-31 at 14.58.10.png

Screen Shot 2018-08-31 at 14.58.01.png

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1 hour ago, Laurence and Isobel said:

Do pipes going through kitchen counters require some sort of protection like a grommet or a sleeve or is it ok to just drill a 10mm hole for the pipe to go through?

 

I'd make the hole 11mm if I were you. The pipe needs protection against 'chafing' as as wood cannot chafe copper, its fine to just pass it through. A different matter through metal holes though.

 

 

1 hour ago, Laurence and Isobel said:

Also if anyone has any idea if the placement of this cooker is ok for BSS? We will be tiling the wall just next to it to protect from heat damage.

 

The manual for the cooker will give you the clearances required. If the manual says its fine then its fine.  If the manual says your vertical panel is not permissible then it's not OK. The manual trumps everything. If it is silent on the matter then this is down to the personal opinion of the BSS bod looking at it. Chose one and ask him!

 

 

1 hour ago, Laurence and Isobel said:

along under the gunnel

 

God that spelling grates. Proper boaters spell it 'gunwale' ;) 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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My only comment is that with a large pan on the hob heat from under the pan and possibly flames may play on the tiles for a long period. Then there is a danger of the wood below the tiles starting to smoulder. My cooker has a piece of heat proof insulation under stainless steel where your tiles would be to try to avoid the possible danger. As long as they stick you could substitute tiles for the stainless but I suspect my metal will conduct heat  way from the source while tiles may tend to concentrate it.

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Amazing! Thank you for the quick responses!

 

Thats great re: just drill 11mm hole through the counter

 

Not so great re: cooker placement, manual says it requires a 20mm clearance on the sides so I'll have to adjust ?

 

Gunnel... how embarrassing, Gunwale from here on :)

 

Thanks!

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Can you not run the gas pipe under the worktop instead of following the gunwhale until you get to the cooker. Putting a hole where you have marked it does not look good, while you are at it the hob needs to be moved to the left a bit to allow for fireboard behind the tiles.

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5 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

The gas pipe isn't going to go through the worktop where your mark is, i.e, 4 inches from the side, is it? If so, that would seem a bit vulnerable. 

Hello! The idea is that the pipe runs along under the gunwale then drops down through a hole so it can access back of cooker. What makes you think its vulnerable and where else could it go? Open to suggestions here, but figured having pipe clipped under the gunwale keeps it all visible...

 

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7 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

no they don't.   gunnel is just fine.  :P

 

It might be in the dictionary, but preferring it spelled it that way indicates to me a certain lack of sensibility or appreciation of ze English language like wot she is wrote.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Laurence and Isobel said:

Hello! The idea is that the pipe runs along under the gunwale then drops down through a hole so it can access back of cooker. What makes you think its vulnerable and where else could it go? Open to suggestions here, but figured having pipe clipped under the gunwale keeps it all visible...

 

Not my area of expertise,  but if it's dropping straight down so it's like a stalk sticking up from the worktop such that there's room all around it, it would be vulnerable to knocks and easily damaged by kitchen implements, etc. I'd have thought take it to the back of the counter and run it down the "wall" and then box it in so it's fully protected.  I imagine the RCD (Recreational Craft Directive) would have gas pipe routing guidance you could follow.

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29 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Not my area of expertise,  but if it's dropping straight down so it's like a stalk sticking up from the worktop such that there's room all around it, it would be vulnerable to knocks and easily damaged by kitchen implements, etc. I'd have thought take it to the back of the counter and run it down the "wall" and then box it in so it's fully protected.  I imagine the RCD (Recreational Craft Directive) would have gas pipe routing guidance you could follow.

 

That will however, take the OP about 100 times longer to source, read and digest than to actually install the pipe. Yes the pipe needs to be protected from damage. I'd suggest turning it back against the hull of the boat before turning vertically down, then though a U shaped notch cut in the back edge of the worktop. Remove the worktop to do this, then put it back on. This is how it would normally be done. 

 

Don't forget an isolating valve in an accessible position, unless this cooker isthe only gas appliance in the boat.

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

That will however, take the OP about 100 times longer to source, read and digest than to actually install the pipe. Yes the pipe needs to be protected from damage. I'd suggest turning it back against the hull of the boat before turning vertically down, then though a U shaped notch cut in the back edge of the worktop. Remove the worktop to do this, then put it back on. This is how it would normally be done. 

 

Don't forget an isolating valve in an accessible position, unless this cooker isthe only gas appliance in the boat.

Yup, you're right, but I thought someone would be along with a link to the relevant bit.  Your suggested route is the same as mine was in my head, but you put it rather better! :D

 

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23 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

It might be in the dictionary, but preferring it spelled it that way indicates to me a certain lack of sensibility or appreciation of ze English language like wot she is wrote.

 

 

I'm a fan of phonetic spelling - it will help English become the primary international language.  .......    tonite, color, meter (as in 'metre'), etc.  The irregularities of English spelling must be a nightmare for foreigners. ......... show, bow, bough. enough, though, should, wood, ..............   the list is endless.

 

In this case 'gunnel' is accepted English spelling, so why not let it run?  

 

 

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12 hours ago, Murflynn said:

I'm a fan of phonetic spelling - it will help English become the primary international language.  .......    tonite, color, meter (as in 'metre'), etc.  The irregularities of English spelling must be a nightmare for foreigners. ......... show, bow, bough. enough, though, should, wood, ..............   the list is endless.

 

 

 

 

What, and turn all homophones into homonyms at the same time? Where would that leave homographs? ;)

 

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On 31/08/2018 at 21:11, Laurence and Isobel said:

That sounds like the best option, cutting a U shaped notch, thank you. There is also a boiler which needs connecting. Can the isolating valve be under the gunwale also?

 

Thanks again

Just thinking that 10 mm pipe is a bit on the small side if there is also a boiler to concider. Maybe the pipe from the regulator is larger?, and the cooker is “tee’d” off in 10 mm?

 

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2 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

Just thinking that 10 mm pipe is a bit on the small side if there is also a boiler to concider. Maybe the pipe from the regulator is larger?, and the cooker is “tee’d” off in 10 mm?

 

 

Interesting point. Most 10mm copper pipe is unsuitable for boats, being too thin walled. I mentally assumed the op was drilling a 10mm hole for a (slightly smaller diameter but thick walled) 3/8” pipe to the cooker.  

 

And yes a water heater also on a 3/8” pipe is probably overloading it. But that is not what the op asked about. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 02/09/2018 at 10:58, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Interesting point. Most 10mm copper pipe is unsuitable for boats, being too thin walled. I mentally assumed the op was drilling a 10mm hole for a (slightly smaller diameter but thick walled) 3/8” pipe to the cooker.  

 

And yes a water heater also on a 3/8” pipe is probably overloading it. But that is not what the op asked about. 

We haven't put in the pipes yet, what thickness are you supposed to use? thanks

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On 02/09/2018 at 10:58, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Interesting point. Most 10mm copper pipe is unsuitable for boats, being too thin walled. 

Hmmmm, are you sure? BS EN ISO 10239:2017 requires pipes up to 12mm to have a wall thickness of 0.6mm. I think it used to be 0.8mm in the old and now obsolete version of the ISO.

 

edit: 10mm copper pipe sold by ASAP has a wall thickness of 1mm.

Edited by nicknorman
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