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Hartlebury lad

Morso Stove collar crack

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Hi everyone,

 

Apologies if this image is not the right size! This is the current state of the collar on my Morso 1430 stove. The crack randomly appeared as we were simply sitting in the boat having a brew. A sharp crack noise and there it was! The stove hasn't been used since May and it was certainly not in use at the time either. Normal room temperature, boat moored up, no "stress" on it - completely random! Over a year ago, i put some fireproof sealant at the top joint on advice from folks on here after clouting the chimney (there was a bit of movement) which i was happy with. 

Question is, can i use the same sealant on the crack which is about 3 mm wide or am i into a replacement collar, which seems like it could be a pig of a job. I know you can't take chances with Carbon Monoxide  ( i have 2 detectors on board) but is there a significant risk? received_675171519526866.jpeg.789c5fb4da7af94b87c226be4de12914.jpeg

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Change it before you need the stove. The collars are identical to Wenlock Mk2s-mine cracked the same-cause is due to rust swelling the bottom of the flue where I hadnt capped the chimney.

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Stop using fire cement, it sets hard and stresses the collar.

Use a turn of fireproof cord, then a high temperature silicone sealant, it stand 1600 degrees, honest.

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I'm sure it would be a BSS fail, however practically speaking it could be sealed up in the short term I guess. The danger is that you seal it up in the short term and then forget about it, and after a while the crack opens up and gasses you.

As suggested, high temperature silicone sealant is a much better bet than hard, crumbly fire cement

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Thanks so far ....

I have used the high temp black silicone stuff - still got some - around the collar top, and I am confident it would do a job. But I am generally a "whats the worst that could happen" kind of guy, and the worst that could happen here is a nightmare. If it has to be done, now is the time, as it will be needed in a few weeks.

If i am into a replacement, does anyone have any tips on what to look out for and what i will need.   It seems like a messy and intrusive job (detaching the top of the flue, struggling with heat suffered fittings etc,, blah de blah)

Is it best left to a specialist ? - the boat is in the Nantwich area.

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Put your silicone on and tighten up a piston ring clamp around it.  Google piston ring clamps for expandable sizes and prices.  They're cheap enough.

 Different types.

index ring.jpg

index ring clamp.jpg

Edited by bizzard

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Now THAT is thinking outside the box. Won't be pretty but will be effective and do the job. Will probably do for the lifetime of the stove. Someone said that effective lifetime of a stove without constant repairs is about 7 years or so and its already about 9 years old, albeit not used every day in the winter. I will explore that avenue.

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2 hours ago, Hartlebury lad said:

Thanks so far ....

I have used the high temp black silicone stuff - still got some - around the collar top, and I am confident it would do a job. But I am generally a "whats the worst that could happen" kind of guy, and the worst that could happen here is a nightmare. If it has to be done, now is the time, as it will be needed in a few weeks.

If i am into a replacement, does anyone have any tips on what to look out for and what i will need.   It seems like a messy and intrusive job (detaching the top of the flue, struggling with heat suffered fittings etc,, blah de blah)

Is it best left to a specialist ? - the boat is in the Nantwich area.

It's a bugger of a job, or a slightly  bigger bugger of a job if you have a back boiler.  The collar is held on by two csk screws which go down  through a couple of lugs on the collar.  The screws go into loose bits of steel which fit beneath the stove top.  They are invariably well corroded in.    Buy a new collar, two screws and the steel bits.  Then you can see what you have to deal with.  Don't forget a tin of hand cleaner- you will need it.

 

The safest  thing to do (but messy so take the stove ashore if poss)  is to take an angle grinder to the lugs in the collar  and grind off enough to get the screws out.  It will all come apart easily then.  Using  a 4in rather than 4 1/2 in angel grinder helps

 

The gamblers among us will simply hit the lugs with a nammer and chisel, next to the collar, so that they snap off.  This may cause the top of the stove to expire in sympathy but makes less mess.

 

Refit the collar with  some 7mm  fire rope under it in the groove in the stove top and put the screws in.   You have to put one hand down through the collar to hold the steel bits in the right place for the screws.   It is at this point that a back boiler makes life more difficult!  Do NOT overtighten the screws.  Enough to just  stop the collar moving freely is quite enough.  Over tight stops the collar moving as it warms up and may cause it to have a short  life.  Do generously anoint the screws with copper grease or other high temp lubricant.  You may then  be able to get it apart next time.

 

Bizzards suggestion is OK, but a worm drive hose clip ( Jubilee clip) or two  would be easier to fit.

 

Your flue looks a little too large to me.  There should be enough gap between flue and collar to easily fit some fire rope and then have a generous bead of  HT silicone over it.   If there is only a tiny gap any rust causes wedging and splits the crappy cast-iron collar.  113 mm OD flue pipe is ideal.

 

N

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Mat I diversify a little. Our roof collar has a shaped, to take the contour of the roof, piece of wood. Over the years, many years water has ingressed into the wood. I have in the past scraped and poked and spread wood filler over the wood. Painted and after a couple of years water starts to penetrate and comes into the boat. This happened during one of the recent downpours that we have had. So, off comes the filler. At present I've not reapplied any filler. Letting it dry thoroughly. I am considering what to do.  I'm thinking, car body filler or good quality wood filler,again or the BIG task of removing the roof collar and replacing the wood sandwich. Can you get shaped wood for this job? I don't want a crooked chimney, it's vertical at present.

 

Any suggestions are normally well recieved. Sorry for going ever so slightly off topic.

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2 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

I drop the fire off the flue by taking the feet off, saves taking it out of the roof collar. Easy if there is no back boiler, else not so simple.

Aye- its the roof collar aspect that bothers me. Hadn't thought of that!  There is no back boiler.

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1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

Mat I diversify a little. Our roof collar has a shaped, to take the contour of the roof, piece of wood. Over the years, many years water has ingressed into the wood. I have in the past scraped and poked and spread wood filler over the wood. Painted and after a couple of years water starts to penetrate and comes into the boat. This happened during one of the recent downpours that we have had. So, off comes the filler. At present I've not reapplied any filler. Letting it dry thoroughly. I am considering what to do.  I'm thinking, car body filler or good quality wood filler,again or the BIG task of removing the roof collar and replacing the wood sandwich. Can you get shaped wood for this job? I don't want a crooked chimney, it's vertical at present.

 

Any suggestions are normally well recieved. Sorry for going ever so slightly off topic.

Get someone to fabricate a proper slanted steel collar to suit your roof ( Boatmans cCabin used to do a cast one ) or have a steel piece made/fabricated to match the bit of timber you now have.  Should not be more than a morning's work for even an ammerchewer.

N

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2 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Mat I diversify a little. Our roof collar has a shaped, to take the contour of the roof, piece of wood. Over the years, many years water has ingressed into the wood. I have in the past scraped and poked and spread wood filler over the wood. Painted and after a couple of years water starts to penetrate and comes into the boat. This happened during one of the recent downpours that we have had. So, off comes the filler. At present I've not reapplied any filler. Letting it dry thoroughly. I am considering what to do.  I'm thinking, car body filler or good quality wood filler,again or the BIG task of removing the roof collar and replacing the wood sandwich. Can you get shaped wood for this job? I don't want a crooked chimney, it's vertical at present.

 

Any suggestions are normally well recieved. Sorry for going ever so slightly off topic.

M G Joinery Dutton Road Aldermans Green Industrial Estate Coventry CV2 2LE 02476  612330

 

http://www.mgjoinery.co.uk/

 

Made me a hardwood base for my chimney. I did a drawing and made a cardboard template cross section for them

 

Cost me about £70 last year.

 

The collar and blue base are just a mockup to make sure I got the angles right, the black block is the "wood sandwich" that was used.

IMGP2891resize.jpg

Edited by Ray T

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2 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Mat I diversify a little. Our roof collar has a shaped, to take the contour of the roof, piece of wood. Over the years, many years water has ingressed into the wood. I have in the past scraped and poked and spread wood filler over the wood. Painted and after a couple of years water starts to penetrate and comes into the boat. This happened during one of the recent downpours that we have had. So, off comes the filler. At present I've not reapplied any filler. Letting it dry thoroughly. I am considering what to do.  I'm thinking, car body filler or good quality wood filler,again or the BIG task of removing the roof collar and replacing the wood sandwich. Can you get shaped wood for this job? I don't want a crooked chimney, it's vertical at present.

 

Any suggestions are normally well recieved. Sorry for going ever so slightly off topic.

Limekiln Chandlers do an angled roof collar for 4.1/2'' flue pipe. £35. If you have a heavily cambered roof like Liverpool boats the angle might not be enough. Bed it down on Sikaflex or Marineflex.

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Thanks for the comments. Should I be prepared for a right old ding dong getting the present collar off. I guess it's been on there since 1991.

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5 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thanks for the comments. Should I be prepared for a right old ding dong getting the present collar off. I guess it's been on there since 1991.

I'd get a new flue pipe at the same time. The old one is probably rusted away at the top.

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5 minutes ago, Hartlebury lad said:

That is for holding together sections of double skinned flue.  Even if you secure the crack in your collar it is still an increased risk of leaking and is almost certainly a BSS failure.

 

Using DS flue is recommended by the Code of Practice for solid fuel stove installs, but not mandatory or part of the BSS.  However if you are replacing the flue a DS flue  might be helpful.  MC do flue kits.  You will still need a new Morso collar though.

 

Get stuck in and do it whilst the weather is warm enough to not need the stove.

N

 

 

 

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