Generator

[Bear heart]

Is it ok to attach a generator to the land line connector on the boat?

[Gareth E]

Yes that's fine.

[MtB]

12 hours ago, Gareth E said:

Yes that's fine.

 

Broadly speaking yes, subject to there needing to be something special about the cable you use if you have a galvanic isolator IIRC. Someone better informed than me will be along shortly to explain, I expect.

 

[mrsmelly]

I woul suggest connecting it to your shoreline rather than landline or you could have a shocking experience on the telephone! ?

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I woul suggest connecting it to your shoreline rather than landline or you could have a shocking experience on the telephone! ?

 

You (and I) are fighting a losing battle on this one mrsmelly. Yes a shoreline transmits mains power and a landline is a wired phone connection but even otherwise clever people mix the two terms indiscriminately these days. Same as with gunwales and gunnels. I blame that Sally woman. 

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You (and I) are fighting a losing battle on this one mrsmelly. Yes a shoreline transmits mains power and a landline is a wired phone connection but even otherwise clever people mix the two terms indiscriminately these days. Same as with gunwales and gunnels. I blame that Sally woman. 

Sally woman? ?

[Dr Bob]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You (and I) are fighting a losing battle on this one mrsmelly. Yes a shoreline transmits mains power and a landline is a wired phone connection but even otherwise clever people mix the two terms indiscriminately these days. Same as with gunwales and gunnels. I blame that Sally woman. 

We used to have a gunnel when we lived in Moss Side.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

We used to have a gunnel when we lived in Moss Side.

I not U !!!!!!

 

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Sally woman? ?

 

Yes, Sally Gunwale. Silly!

 

She can't even spell here own name! 

[Dr Bob]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I not U !!!!!!

 

No, definitely me.

[cuthound]

Ideally the generator should be connected to earth. The best place to connect it would be the galvanised piling, using a cable with crocodile clips on the ends. Failing that connecting it to a mooring spike driven into damp earth would suffice.

 

However most people don't bother, but a generator live to earth fault could result in the hull of your boat becoming live.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

 

However most people don't bother, but a generator live to earth fault could result in the hull of your boat becoming live.

With respect to what ?

 

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

With respect to what ?

 

 

To anyone who was connected to earth, particularly if the boat in question didn't have an RCD fitted, to trip the supply.

Edited August 30, 2018 by cuthound

[ditchcrawler]

33 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

To anyone who was connected to earth, particularly if the boat in question didn't have an RCD fitted, to trip the supply.

and the return path if the genny is not earthed would be what

[MtB]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

but a generator live to earth fault could result in the hull of your boat becoming live.

 

Which wouldn't matter a toot to anyone fully on the boat, but anyone touching the boat and anything on the bank at the same time might get a shock. 

[cuthound]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

and the return path if the genny is not earthed would be what

 

In the event of the generator developing a fault when it is not connected to earth, then the return path would be the unfortunate person who accidentally provided that earth, I.e a passer by or even someone who had fallen into the canal.

 

Cross posted with MtB, who is making the same point.

Edited August 30, 2018 by cuthound

[Momac]

I have successfully used a generator with 240Volt AC output connected via the normal shore power cable and inlet and with the generator not earthed.   I expect have thousands of others have done so  .

Galvanic isolator makes no difference as it doesn't know if the electricity is from the mains or a generator.

I do not fear being killed by  a shock from the Hull as it is GRP!

Also the generator is in plastic case.

[nb Innisfree]

46 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Which wouldn't matter a toot to anyone fully on the boat, but anyone touching the boat and anything on the bank at the same time might get a shock. 

Surely that could only happen if genny was connected to earth, otherwise there would be no earth return reference? 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

In the event of the generator developing a fault when it is not connected to earth, then the return path would be the unfortunate person who accidentally provided that earth, I.e a passer by or even someone who had fallen into the canal.

 

Cross posted with MtB, who is making the same point.

But if the generator is not earthed its the same as an isolation transformer 

42 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Surely that could only happen if genny was connected to earth, otherwise there would be no earth return reference? 

Thank you

 

[cuthound]

53 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But if the generator is not earthed its the same as an isolation transformer 

Thank you

 

 

Not what the HSE says In their guidance in section 7.  See the url below.

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/ocs/400-499/oc482_2.htm

 

Only when a portable generator is to feed it's load via an isolation transformer is there no need to isolate.

 

This is why many portable generators have an earth stud, so that it can be referenced to earth.

[ditchcrawler]

10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Not what the HSE says In their guidance in section 7.  See the url below.

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/ocs/400-499/oc482_2.htm

 

Only when a portable generator is to feed it's load via an isolation transformer is there no need to isolate.

 

This is why many portable generators have an earth stud, so that it can be referenced to earth.

Low-voltage, single-phase portable and transportable generators

7 These are generally machines ranging in size from 0.3 to 10 kVA. Winding connections are brought out to a socket, in which the third or protective conductor socket tube is usually connected internally to the generator enclosure but may in some cases be referenced internally to one pole of the generator winding. A voltage-selector switch may be fitted to enable 240 V or 120 V outputs to be obtained from BS 4343 sockets of the appropriate type.

8 Where there is no path for earth fault currents to return to the 'separated' winding of a generator (cf the secondary winding of an isolating transformer), it is acceptable for these small generators and their loads to be run without deliberately connecting either external metallic parts or one pole of the single-phase electrical system to earth, subject to the following conditions.

[nb Innisfree]

If there is no connection whatsoever between onshore genny and earth there can be no circuit between shore and boat, so anyone touching the boat would be safe. On the other hand if genny was earthed there would be a circuit path and in that scenario an RCD would protect anyone on shore touching the boat (assuming a fault somewhere) 

Edited August 30, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[Drayke]

I can’t remember who said, that when running a standalone generator, you should bridge the neutral and earth terminals on the lead from generator to the shore power socket on the boat, think it could have been Gibbo.

[nb Innisfree]

9 minutes ago, F DRAYKE said:

I can’t remember who said, that when running a standalone generator, you should bridge the neutral and earth terminals on the lead from generator to the shore power socket on the boat, think it could have been Gibbo.

Yes, that's in order to allow an RCD to function. But you then need to disable earth neutral link downstream from that. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[Drayke]

16 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Yes, that's in order to allow an RCD to function. But you then need to disable earth neutral link downstream from that. 

And how would you do that?