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AGM Batteries


mrsmelly

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Ok peeps as usual there are several threads running re batteries and peeps still extol the virtue of such as Trojans etc. I am strictly in the no maintainance use and bin school so non of that topping up nonsense for me. My question hopefully from those in the know is are there any benefits in me fitting agm batteries over my no top up flas? They are MUCH more expensive as in nearly double the price so do they last twice as long? Do they charge more quickly? Can they be taken down lower before charging?  In short are they worth the money? I will be plugged in this winter but my cheapo batts will need changing next summer probably as they will be over my usual two year life. 

Gracias

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5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Ok peeps as usual there are several threads running re batteries and peeps still extol the virtue of such as Trojans etc. I am strictly in the no maintainance use and bin school so non of that topping up nonsense for me. My question hopefully from those in the know is are there any benefits in me fitting agm batteries over my no top up flas? They are MUCH more expensive as in nearly double the price so do they last twice as long? Do they charge more quickly? Can they be taken down lower before charging?  In short are they worth the money? I will be plugged in this winter but my cheapo batts will need changing next summer probably as they will be over my usual two year life. 

Gracias

's probably as broad as it's long. I fitted my 4 AGM batteries in 2013 and, as you say they are probably twice the price of cheapo batteries but, at 5 years and still OK (tempting fate once again) they've lasted just over twice as long as your flas seem to do (if you say you get two years out of them). I tend to try to keep mine fairly well charged as a liveaboard but I'm pretty much permanently off grid. Don't know if that helps.

 

ETA I haven't even looked at the batteries since they were fitted, I don't even know what make they are.

Edited by Wanderer Vagabond
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3 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

's probably as broad as it's long. I fitted my 4 AGM batteries in 2013 and, as you say they are probably twice the price of cheapo batteries but, at 5 years and still OK (tempting fate once again) they've lasted just over twice as long as your flas seem to do (if you say you get two years out of them). I tend to try to keep mine fairly well charged as a liveaboard but I'm pretty much permanently off grid. Don't know if that helps.

 

ETA I haven't even looked at the batteries since they were fitted, I don't even know what make they are.

Thanks For the input. I like the fact you don't even know what make they are ? The only reason I know mine are still fitted is the wife is at present watching telly so mine must still be there ?

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This will probably fill you with horror (not everybody likes Charles S) but he sometimes give you food for thought. He's done some analysis of battery types with a graphical analysis. Looksee  here:-

 

 

As a side thought - if you're only getting 2 years out of your kit, had you thought of increasing your battery bank size so that whatever you have are not quite so caned?

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15 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

This will probably fill you with horror (not everybody likes Charles S) but he sometimes give you food for thought. He's done some analysis of battery types with a graphical analysis. Looksee  here:-

 

 

As a side thought - if you're only getting 2 years out of your kit, had you thought of increasing your battery bank size so that whatever you have are not quite so caned?

The video rather sold me on AGM's (what I've currently got). Given how much you have to 'baby sit' lithium batteries (not too hot, not too cold, not too much charge,etc.etc) I still wouldn't consider them until they are much the same price as an AGM. They are too much money to risk failure.

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22 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

This will probably fill you with horror (not everybody likes Charles S) but he sometimes give you food for thought. He's done some analysis of battery types with a graphical analysis. Looksee  here:-

 

 

As a side thought - if you're only getting 2 years out of your kit, had you thought of increasing your battery bank size so that whatever you have are not quite so caned?

Thanks you old goat ? It does look like agm are a better bet? I treat my batteries well tho so not like this test but even so I am now starting to look into a reasonable supply for agm.

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Very happy with mine, Leoch not ultra expensive. Two years in they still appear to have full capacity the LA's they replaced died under 3 years and were definately sad at this age. There are two types of AGM one charges at 14.4 and t'other ar 14.8 volts this voltage must not be exceeded or you will damage them. I do have Solar(tracer mppt) and this has had to be tweaked to avoid any equalisation charge, I have also had to change the victron voltages and again stop it equalising, the alternator fortunately was already 14.4 max so that was OK.  The SOC voltages are also different with 100% being 12.9-13.0 volts which is actually a benefit, but 50% is also higher at 12.3 volts. As to value for money ask in 18 months time and if they are still good, they will be getting cheaper than the LA's I had before.

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3 minutes ago, Detling said:

Very happy with mine, Leoch not ultra expensive. Two years in they still appear to have full capacity the LA's they replaced died under 3 years and were definately sad at this age. There are two types of AGM one charges at 14.4 and t'other ar 14.8 volts this voltage must not be exceeded or you will damage them. I do have Solar(tracer mppt) and this has had to be tweaked to avoid any equalisation charge, I have also had to change the victron voltages and again stop it equalising, the alternator fortunately was already 14.4 max so that was OK.  The SOC voltages are also different with 100% being 12.9-13.0 volts which is actually a benefit, but 50% is also higher at 12.3 volts. As to value for money ask in 18 months time and if they are still good, they will be getting cheaper than the LA's I had before.

Ahh interesting about the charging. My present alt charges to 14.4 but my combi does an equaliser thingy every month so I need to find out how to stop that if I go for agm ?

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Warning - at least one supplier of AGM into the inland marine field demands a charging voltage that in most cases requires the user to buy £300 worth of Mr Sterling’s kit AND gets very uppity when you ask them to explain why and justify it - even threatening legal action. Read the websites carefully.

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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Warning - at least one supplier of AGM into the inland marine field demands a charging voltage that in most cases requires the user to buy £300 worth of Mr Sterling’s kit AND gets very uppity when you ask them to explain why and justify it - even threatening legal action. Read the websites carefully.

Thanks Tony. I will not be buying from that supplier! If I go with them it will be someone such as batteries on the web or similar ?

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Another vote for AGMs from this corner, our last set of 4 lasted 10 years and I have replaced with AGM'S again. I like the fact they are maintenance free and will withstand some punishment, though I do treat ours carefully and do not let thme drop below 12.2v. 

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Years ago we had 8 120 ah AGMs as our bank and thinking, mistakenly, that they were the older type requiring 14.2v max charge we nearly wrecked them. Multicell, the suppliers,  recommended long 14.8v charges but I chickened out and instead after several long 14.4 - 14.6 v absorption charges of several days each they made a full recovery. They deffo were more robust than our previous cheapos. 

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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Thanks Tony. I will not be buying from that supplier! If I go with them it will be someone such as batteries on the web or similar ?

On another thread where batteries were being discussed (and I think I tempted fate on that one by stating that my 5 year old AGM's were still fine) I thought afterwards about how much longer they might last and looked up on 't web for suppliers (just in case) and saw these ( https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product-category/leisure-batteries/agm-leisure-batteries/   ), I haven't tried them and aren't recommending them but on their site they looked promising (especially the delivery), has anyone any experience of them?

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 I've recently fitted my third set of AGMs..With leisure use the first set 5 x110 (Multicell) lasted about 5 years, second set 5 x 120 (Lucas) lasted just 5 years. Present set  4 x 130 (Leoch) who knows how long they will last. I chose AGMs for their low (no) maintenance as the bank is awkard to access . Can't remember recommended charging regeme for Multicells, Lucas were 13.8 float and 14.8 bulk. Leoch are 13.7 float and 14.7 bulk. My Mastervolt Combi will only give me 14.4 bulk but years ago I tweeked my Adverc controller to give me 14.8 from the alternator. When I changed the Lucas bank I estimate they were down to 60% + of notional capacity. I'm sure I could have got another year out of them. 

Edited by Slim
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14 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Ok peeps as usual there are several threads running re batteries and peeps still extol the virtue of such as Trojans etc. I am strictly in the no maintainance use and bin school so non of that topping up nonsense for me. My question hopefully from those in the know is are there any benefits in me fitting agm batteries over my no top up flas? They are MUCH more expensive as in nearly double the price so do they last twice as long? Do they charge more quickly? Can they be taken down lower before charging?  In short are they worth the money? I will be plugged in this winter but my cheapo batts will need changing next summer probably as they will be over my usual two year life. 

Gracias

No they won’t be any advantage over your normal leisure’s unless you leaving your battery disconnected for long periods as they don’t self discharge as much.   You can of course get deep cycle AGM/Gels which are on the same par with deep cycle FLA’s.

Edited by Robbo
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18 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

No ones answered this one yet. Any experiences?

Same as normal LA batteries in practise, although they are meant to be quicker.  

 

If you get a deep cycle AGM and compare it to a deep cycle FLA the AGM will be quicker to charge.

 

@mrsmelly if you looking at AGM, look at 2v Gel as well - I will see if I can find the thread.

Edited by Robbo
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21 minutes ago, Robbo said:

If you get a deep cycle AGM and compare it to a deep cycle FLA the AGM will be quicker to charge.

Not by much though. It’s only the bulk stage that’s somewhat faster. 

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25 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Same as normal LA batteries in practise, although they are meant to be quicker.  

 

If you get a deep cycle AGM and compare it to a deep cycle FLA the AGM will be quicker to charge.

 

@mrsmelly if you looking at AGM, look at 2v Gel as well - I will see if I can find the thread.

 

AGM batteries generally perform better than gel batteries. AGM's will provide more instantaneous current and generally can be discharged deeper without and for more cycles without damage. Gel batteries are cheaper though.

 

Gel batteries are rarely used industrial applications, their main market being automotive starter batteries.

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10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

AGM batteries generally perform better than gel batteries. AGM's will provide more instantaneous current and generally can be discharged deeper without and for more cycles without damage. Gel batteries are cheaper though.

I can't find the thread at the moment, it was regarding using 2v Tubular Gels.   To be honest if I wasn't going down the Lithium route I would revisit 2v Tubular again.   @mrsmelly Even though 2v tend to be tall, with Gels and AGM you can position them on their side so don't discount them because of the height.

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1 minute ago, Robbo said:

I can't find the thread at the moment, it was regarding using 2v Tubular Gels.   To be honest if I wasn't going down the Lithium route I would revisit 2v Tubular again.   @mrsmelly Even though 2v tend to be tall, with Gels and AGM you can position them on their side so don't discount them because of the height.

I looked at these as well, and if I hadnt got the cheap Valence batteries, like you I would have bought them as well

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3 minutes ago, Robbo said:

I can't find the thread at the moment, it was regarding using 2v Tubular Gels.   To be honest if I wasn't going down the Lithium route I would revisit 2v Tubular again.   @mrsmelly Even though 2v tend to be tall, with Gels and AGM you can position them on their side so don't discount them because of the height.

 

Ah, tubular cells are the bees knees of lead acid batteries, whether wet or gel. They give excellent performance but as you say are much taller than normal lead acids, so don't lend themselves to easy replacement.

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