Trojan T-105 batteries

[rowland al]

9 minutes ago, dmr said:

Another possible issue is plate construction. Something is usually added (alloyed) to the lead plates to strengthen them. Historically, and in Trojans etc, this will be Antimony. More recently starter batteries have used Calcium as this reduces water loss and allows the batteries to be sold as"maintenance free". I have read that Calcium does not cope as well with deeper cycling. It is possible that some leisure batteries have a similar plate thickness to starters but might still use Antimony which will give them more cycles.

 

Don't believe anything the Caravan people say, they produced a "technical" article claiming that the notorious Elecsols were good.

 

...............Dave

 

 

Horses for courses I suppose. It’s quite an interesting challenge trying to find the best solution for your own personal requirements and circumstances. 

 

It would be quite cool to be able to just pull a ‘power pack’ out of a slot so you can take it down to the local pub to charge it up. It would also be good for that pack to fully charge up from the alternator in say an hour or two of engine running. Lithium seems the closest to that at the moment but I’m sure battery technology will move on once we consume all of the oil! ?

Edited August 28, 2018 by rowland al

[cuthound]

Certainly in the early days of Valve Regulated Sealed Lead Acid batteries(1980 - 90), the plates had a high calcium content and performed very badly in the telecoms industry.

 

There were so many failures, that the watrranty claims virtually bankrupted the UK's biggest manufacturers,  Chloride and Tungsten.

 

Most of the failures were caused by group bar corrosion, where the calcium/lead alloy plates joined the pure lead group bars.

 

This corrosion was never fully eliminated, and eventually the surviving VRSLA battery manufacturers reverted to pure lead for the plates on their higher quality batteries (except Rolls, who had always used thicker, pure lead plates than the other manufacturers).

 

Whether the oxygen and hydrogen recombining accelerated this corrosion in VRSLA's or whether it also happens in wet cells with lead/calcium alloyed plates I don't know.

[rowland al]

5 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Certainly in the early days of Valve Regulated Sealed Lead Acid batteries(1980 - 90), the plates had a high calcium content and performed very badly in the telecoms industry.

 

There were so many failures, that the watrranty claims virtually bankrupted the UK's biggest manufacturers,  Chloride and Tungsten.

 

Most of the failures were caused by group bar corrosion, where the calcium/lead alloy plates joined the pure lead group bars.

 

This corrosion was never fully eliminated, and eventually the surviving VRSLA battery manufacturers reverted to pure lead for the plates on their higher quality batteries (except Rolls, who had always used thicker, pure lead plates than the other manufacturers).

 

Whether the oxygen and hydrogen recombining accelerated this corrosion in VRSLA's or whether it also happens in wet cells with lead/calcium alloyed plates I don't know.

Interesting. Whist I’m no expert in the technical history of lead acid based batteries, I do remember in the early 80s giving my car battery a good hammering most evenings with my stereo and CB radio (with burner). 

 

I don’t ever recall having to replace batteries every 2 years. Mind you I probably changed cars more often, so not very scientific. ?  

[Robbo]

23 minutes ago, rowland al said:

Horses for courses I suppose. It’s quite an interesting challenge trying to find the best solution for your own personal requirements and circumstances. 

 

It would be quite cool to be able to just pull a ‘power pack’ out of a slot so you can take it down to the local pub to charge it up. It would also be good for that pack to fully charge up from the alternator in say an hour or two of engine running. Lithium seems the closest to that at the moment but I’m sure battery technology will move on once we consume all of the oil! ?

If you want to spare some roof space to solar that would be good.  As your consumption is low you could get a good percentage of the charging done in winter as well.   You can bulk charge in the morning, and let the solar do it stuff for absorption n the like. 

27 minutes ago, rowland al said:

but I’m sure battery technology will move on once we consume all of the oil! ?

Not by much looking at the Periodic table.

[rowland al]

11 minutes ago, Robbo said:

If you want to spare some roof space to solar that would be good.  As your consumption is low you could get a good percentage of the charging done in winter as well.   You can bulk charge in the morning, and let the solar do it stuff for absorption n the like. 

Not by much looking at the Periodic table.

Pocket size nuclear power pack?

 

I mean, what could possibly go wrong? 

[Robbo]

4 minutes ago, rowland al said:

Pocket size nuclear power pack?

Already exists.  

[rowland al]

12 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Already exists.  

Do Midland Chandlers stock them? If so, how much?  ;-)

 

[Robbo]

10 minutes ago, rowland al said:

Do Midland Chandlers stock them? If so, how much? ?

 

Try Amazon

 

[Iain_S]

8 hours ago, dmr said:

(snip)

 

Don't believe anything the Caravan people say, they produced a "technical" article claiming that the notorious Elecsols were good.

 

..

Elecsols WERE good, once upon a time.

We had a couple on Gamebird, which lasted for a good 10 years or so. (Leisure use, but not on shore power when moored.)

I'm not sure what changed, but reports suggested that Elecsols had gone downhill by the time we replaced them, so we just got cheapos. I'd need to check the maintenance book to be sure how long they lasted, but IIRC it was 3 or 4 years, with the last year being a bit iffy if we asked a lot of them (i.e. put the heating on!) 

[jenevers]

Ain't got my manual handy. Do Tracer mppt's decide automatically when to do an equalisation charge?

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, jenevers said:

Ain't got my manual handy. Do Tracer mppt's decide automatically when to do an equalisation charge?

 

Depends which model you have. My last tracer didn’t, my current tracer does. It is programmable to equalise. Mine equalises daily, I think this the default.  

[cuthound]

49 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Depends which model you have. My last tracer didn’t, my current tracer does. It is programmable to equalise. Mine equalises daily, I think this the default.  

 

How long does it stay in equalisation each day?

 

Repeatedly holding batteries at a high charge voltage when there in no lead sulphate to convert will accelerate plate corrosion and shorter battery life.

[MtB]

45 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

How long does it stay in equalisation each day?

 

Repeatedly holding batteries at a high charge voltage when there in no lead sulphate to convert will accelerate plate corrosion and shorter battery life.

 

About one hour per day. They are the same Yuasas as before, currently at about 50% of badge capacity.

 

The daily equalising began when God turned the solar back on in April helped at the beginning, but now the improvement seems to have ceased. 

[dmr]

58 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

How long does it stay in equalisation each day?

 

Repeatedly holding batteries at a high charge voltage when there in no lead sulphate to convert will accelerate plate corrosion and shorter battery life.

Though the likes of Trojan and US do suggest a little equalise "tickle" at the end of every charge cycle.

 

................Dave

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Depends which model you have. My last tracer didn’t, my current tracer does. It is programmable to equalise. Mine equalises daily, I think this the default.  

Which Tracer? I think mine equalises on the 28th of each month. I don’t know what it does if there’s no sun

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Depends which model you have. My last tracer didn’t, my current tracer does. It is programmable to equalise. Mine equalises daily, I think this the default.  

Its time to buy a proper MPPT controller Mike Midnite do a very good one ? and you can buy them from Prism solar in Spain

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

About one hour per day. They are the same Yuasas as before, currently at about 50% of badge capacity.

 

The daily equalising began when God turned the solar back on in April helped at the beginning, but now the improvement seems to have ceased. 

 

54 minutes ago, dmr said:

Though the likes of Trojan and US do suggest a little equalise "tickle" at the end of every charge cycle.

 

................Dave

 

I don't think an hour a day's equalisation will do much damage to a quality battery, but if the batteries aren't left in a discharged or partially state (i.e. goìng from a discharge immediately to a charge and then not stopping until tail current is down to <1%) then there wont be any opportunity for the lead sulphate to become difficult to remove.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

 

I don't think an hour a day's equalisation will do much damage to a quality battery, but if the batteries aren't left in a discharged or partially state (i.e. goìng from a discharge immediately to a charge and then not stopping until tail current is down to <1%) then there wont be any opportunity for the lead sulphate to become difficult to remove.

 

Which of course only ever happens on a boat in boat lala land. 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Which Tracer? I think mine equalises on the 28th of each month. I don’t know what it does if there’s no sun

 

Dunno, not on the boat at the moment to look. Other than it’s the 30a tracer bimble sell, about two years old

[cuthound]

26 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Which of course only ever happens on a boat in boat lala land. 

 

Or if you have solar and it's sunny ?

[MtB]

 

 

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

Or if you have solar and it's sunny ?

 

I dunno what it’s like around your way but here, in the middle of the night my batteries every night are in a state of discharge from evening use, and not being charged either by solar or anything else. 

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

I dunno what it’s like around your way but here, in the middle of the night my batteries every night are in a state of discharge from evening use, and not being charged either by solar or anything else. 

 

True, but when the sun comes out they begin to charge.

 

The lead sulphate begins hardens most quickly when the battery is left in a discharged state.

 

It hardens more slowly when the battery is never fully recharged.

 

In a battery that is discharged, then immediately fully recharged, sulphation occurs slowest of all, and equalisation every 3-6 months will be adequate, as demonstrated by many leisure boats who are either cruising for longish hours or connected to a landline. (Although the batteries on this type of boat also go through far fewer cycles per year).

[jenevers]

On 31/08/2018 at 09:50, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Depends which model you have. My last tracer didn’t, my current tracer does. It is programmable to equalise. Mine equalises daily, I think this the default.  

It's a Tracer 4215 BN. So does that mean it does?

 

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, jenevers said:

It's a Tracer 4215 BN. So does that mean it does?

 

Ive got a 4215BN and I believe it equalises on the 28th of each month.

[jenevers]

2 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Ive got a 4215BN and I believe it equalises on the 28th of each month.

Does it do that without you having programmed it?