Jump to content

Trojan T-105 batteries


eid

Featured Posts

21 hours ago, Phil. said:

Just to add to what Nick said above. We have had trojans as a liveaboard since new four years ago with no noticeable loss of capacity. You should not have too much trouble reaching the higher charging voltage with your solar, to finish off the charging process, even during winter after an initial engine alternator charge. Trojans do like to be equalised periodically, and again depending on how programmable  your charge controller is  this can be done easily with the solar.

 

18 hours ago, eid said:

The solar controller installed allows me to choose between FLA, sealed or Gel batteries, but doesn't seem to have any way to choose a higher voltage than those defaults. This would seem to be the easiest route though (no genny needed).

 

Thanks for the help.

 

After some digging around, it turns out that my solar controller was set for sealed batteries, so has been charging at a lesser voltage, and has an equalisation mode, which I think was disabled due to being set as sealed. I set them last night as FLA and this morning my starter battery was being pushed to ~15v for about 20 minutes. It then settled down to ~14.4.

I'll try and find out how often this happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

As Robby says, LiFePo4s will do it. They take the full charge all the time and you don't need to get them full. Big advantage. The problem is everything else mentioned in the threads,perhaps the biggest of which is the cost if you buy a turnkey system as diy is tricky. Only those living in the leading edge are going that way. 

I have a 22ah Tracer lithium battery but it still takes about 10 hours to fully charge. Has anyone got a link to a similar one which will fully charge in say an hour or two with a 12v charger?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

As Robby says, LiFePo4s will do it. They take the full charge all the time and you don't need to get them full. Big advantage. The problem is everything else mentioned in the threads,perhaps the biggest of which is the cost if you buy a turnkey system as diy is tricky. Only those living in the leading edge are going that way. 

 

Swerving off at a tangent Dr Bob, I often see your "LiFePo4" written as "LiFeP04", i.e. with a zero instead of a letter O. 

 

Being a chemist I imagine you are writing it correctly. Even my indolent google and perusal of the periodic table has failed failed to answer this question for me.

 

And while I'm on, and you being a chemist, I have this prescription from my doctor, are you open today? 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, smileypete said:

Trojans can work out better value than cheapos long term, but may (will?) underperform if not charged at the higher than typical charge voltages the manufacturer requires.

 

For tail current I'd monitor hourly, if it's less than 1-2% and less than a third of the previous hour's value I'd consider it fully charged. Of course this assumes the charge voltage is correct and the batts are healthy, ie not hopelessly sulphated!

 

It's all about effective charging and effective batt monitoring, most problems come about because this is or was missing somewhere along the line...

Oops, I meant more than two thirds of the previous hour's value. :blush:

 

In other words, tail current drops precipitously at first, but then as it declines to a low level it becomes much more stable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got six Trojan 105s nicely tucked away in their battery boxes plus I'm trying out the Trojan Hydro-link Watering Kit which should make filling them easier. I purchased the batteries before the pound sterlings tumble against the dollar so they weren't too expensive, plus I took a gambol and got the Hydro-link on Ebay USA from a nice guy who shipped to UK and put gift low value on the customs label and I didn't get clobbered at our border. Mind you that doesn't always work.

I'm hoping that by the time these batteries need replacing Lithium batteries will have found their place in the market and lowered in cost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Swerving off at a tangent Dr Bob, I often see your "LiFePo4" written as "LiFeP04", i.e. with a zero instead of a letter O. 

 

Being a chemist I imagine you are writing it correctly. Even my indolent google and perusal of the periodic table has failed failed to answer this question for me.

 

And while I'm on, and you being a chemist, I have this prescription from my doctor, are you open today? 

0 and O can look very similar depending on the typeface used tho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rowland al said:

I have a 22ah Tracer lithium battery but it still takes about 10 hours to fully charge. Has anyone got a link to a similar one which will fully charge in say an hour or two with a 12v charger?

That’s because it’s fast charger is only 3 amp, it’s designed as a portable power back not as replacement marine batteries.   The batteries are also lithium polymer, which are designed for maximum energy storage at a low weight not cycle count and max safety.

22 minutes ago, Clodi said:

 

I'm hoping that by the time these batteries need replacing Lithium batteries will have found their place in the market and lowered in cost.

The price of lithium has been increasing quite a bit on the last decade, you may find that the prices go up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Robbo said:

The price of lithium has been increasing quite a bit on the last decade, you may find that the prices go up!

Funnily enough I have just read a financial report that basically says the same thing. I hoped that as demand increases the costs of production falls but it appears not to be the case with Lithium

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Clodi said:

Funnily enough I have just read a financial report that basically says the same thing. I hoped that as demand increases the costs of production falls but it appears not to be the case with Lithium

 

Quite. Lithium is an expensive material to mine I gather, and like oil as we use it up we have to spend more to get the more difficult stuff out. 

 

And with those bloody electric cars hoovering it all up, the price seems set to rocket. I suspect some other technology will actually pop up and lithium will be sidelined and just a footnote in battery history, in the long run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if Lithium prices go up then it might be viable to start producing some home grown stuff rather than importing it. Would be quite nice for mining to return to Cornwall, but I expect it will be ugly and modern rather than lovely stone built engine houses.

 

...............Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, dmr said:

But if Lithium prices go up then it might be viable to start producing some home grown stuff rather than importing it. Would be quite nice for mining to return to Cornwall, but I expect it will be ugly and modern rather than lovely stone built engine houses.

 

...............Dave

 

Curiously, they said on the radio in the night that lithium is the 'gold standard' treatment for bi-polar syndrome. 

 

Presumably FLA doesn't work so well!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Curiously, they said on the radio in the night that lithium is the 'gold standard' treatment for bi-polar syndrome. 

 

Presumably FLA doesn't work so well!

 

 

Acid actually works very well but is used to cause psychological mayhem rather than to cure it.

 

My ex brother in law used to take lithium but would stop taking it when he was on the up as this allowed him to do super dynamic business deals, trouble is sometimes he went so up that he really though he was Jesus Christ.

 

.......................Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, dmr said:

Acid actually works very well but is used to cause psychological mayhem rather than to cure it.

 

My ex brother in law used to take lithium but would stop taking it when he was on the up as this allowed him to do super dynamic business deals, trouble is sometimes he went so up that he really though he was Jesus Christ.

 

.......................Dave

Likewise but in my case it was my Mother. Lithium sorterd her out but if she messed up we had truly exciting times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Can LiFePo4 batteries be charged at low temperatures?

 

Many (all?) lithium batteries will not accept charge at temperatures approaching 0°C

This is what Relion have to say about it.

 

LiFePO4 batteries can safely charge between -20°C to 55°C (-4°F to 131°F). However, at temperatures below 0°C (32°F) the charge current must be reduced, until the temperature is >0ºC (32ºF), as follows:

1. 0°C to -10°C (32°F to 14°F) charge at 0.1C (10% of the battery capacity) 2. -10°C to -20°C (14°F to -4°F) charge at 0.05C (5% of the battery capacity)

LiFePO4 batteries do not require temperature compensation for voltage when charging at hot or cold temperatures.

 

In practice, how often are narrowboat battery temperatures below zero? Very rarely I'd say, especially if the boat has a trad stern and is "lived on" and thus heated in winter. Perhaps more of an issue for a cruiser stern boat but equally, there is less need to keep the batteries in the uninhabited part of the boat, they could instead be moved to a heated part of the boat since they don't vent nasty fumes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

This is what Relion have to say about it.

 

LiFePO4 batteries can safely charge between -20°C to 55°C (-4°F to 131°F). However, at temperatures below 0°C (32°F) the charge current must be reduced, until the temperature is >0ºC (32ºF), as follows:

1. 0°C to -10°C (32°F to 14°F) charge at 0.1C (10% of the battery capacity) 2. -10°C to -20°C (14°F to -4°F) charge at 0.05C (5% of the battery capacity)

LiFePO4 batteries do not require temperature compensation for voltage when charging at hot or cold temperatures.

 

In practice, how often are narrowboat battery temperatures below zero? Very rarely I'd say, especially if the boat has a trad stern and is "lived on" and thus heated in winter. Perhaps more of an issue for a cruiser stern boat but equally, there is less need to keep the batteries in the uninhabited part of the boat, they could instead be moved to a heated part of the boat since they don't vent nasty fumes.

 

Thanks for that Nick, I had a quick Google but couldn't find anything definitive.

 

With regard to location, yes it will depend on battery location and type of stern. Back in 2010 I visited our semi-trad shareboat in January, and was surprised to find ice on the swims, next to the batteries.

 

The problem with moving them inside the cabin, unless it is a new build, will be finding a suitably large space to accommodate them, which isn't being used for something else on a liveaboard boat ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, rowland al said:

I have a 22ah Tracer lithium battery but it still takes about 10 hours to fully charge. Has anyone got a link to a similar one which will fully charge in say an hour or two with a 12v charger?

Just remembered Victron do something similar.....   how ever it’s input is 7amps from car/solar or 3amps from mains, so not a great improvement.

 

https://www.victronenergy.com/batteries/peak-power-pack

 

just re-read you can fast charge via a battery charger on one of the inputs to 40amp.   So it may be what your looking for?

Edited by Robbo
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

Just remembered Victron do something similar.....   how ever it’s input is 7amps from car/solar or 3amps from mains, so not a great improvement.

 

https://www.victronenergy.com/batteries/peak-power-pack

 

just re-read you can fast charge via a battery charger on one of the inputs to 40amp.   So it may be what your looking for?

Thanks Robbo that is the sort of thing I was looking for. I think I’ll stick with the starter type battery for now as it’s turned out a cheap solution.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I often see your "LiFePo4" written as "LiFeP04", i.e. with a zero instead of a letter O. 

 

Being a chemist I imagine you are writing it correctly. Even my indolent google and perusal of the periodic table has failed failed to answer this question for me.

Not a chemist, though my father was.

Lithium Iron Phosphate - LiFePO(subscript)4 is how it should be written. But I haven't worked out how to get the subscript :(

  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/08/2018 at 10:44, rowland al said:

 

We’re also CC’ers and have never used a shore line or generatorv to charge up dometics in 6 years. 

 

Oi, Rowland.

I am sure that was your boat that we have just gone past. What was that orange mains wire going from your boat, over the blue boat you were moored next to and to the shore? I'll take a photo when we come back past tomorrow!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Swerving off at a tangent Dr Bob, I often see your "LiFePo4" written as "LiFeP04", i.e. with a zero instead of a letter O. 

 

Being a chemist I imagine you are writing it correctly. Even my indolent google and perusal of the periodic table has failed failed to answer this question for me.

 

And while I'm on, and you being a chemist, I have this prescription from my doctor, are you open today? 

Aye, you're right. I got it wrong. Its a big 'O' for oxygen. One phosphorous and four oxygen atoms. I just like the symetry of LiFePo.

I close at 5pm tonight so be quick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Oi, Rowland.

I am sure that was your boat that we have just gone past. What was that orange mains wire going from your boat, over the blue boat you were moored next to and to the shore? I'll take a photo when we come back past tomorrow!

Lol, nope, not me guv. :)

 

Actually, we don’t even have the cable/plug. I ought to buy one and a charger really as we have been known to leave the boat in a marina for a weekend. 

 

BTW. I looked at that Victron battery pack link but it doesn’t seem to show charge times (particularly in high charge mode). For me, if it cant be fully charged in an hour or two from the alternator it’s a non starter.

 

I believe even Lithium batteries are also only specified to work over a certain number of charge cycles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.