The cost of fitting out a 65' x 12' Widebeam shell

[Dee Kay]

My partner and I have been actively looking for a boat that suits our needs, tastes and budget for the last few months.

It's been both interesting and frustrating in equal measure.

We visited the Crick Boat Show in May and since then have been looking at different marinas both in London and in the Midlands and we have viewed some private sales too.

We have slowly come to the conclusion that a wide-beam may well be the most comfortable option for us.

Obviously that would mean that we would be restricted in terms of the places we'd be able to visit and if we wanted to go from north to south or vice versa we'd have to get the boat out of the water...around 'blacking time' perhaps...and drop it back in...

But...the extra space would be nice.

So...we are now looking at buying a widebeam shell (65' by 12')

The one we have in mind has side doors, portholes and stainless steel mushrooms.

Inside it has ballast floor and it's been spray foamed and battened.

There's a stainless steel water tank and the hull has been done with epoxy paint.

It seems that it's ready to 'fit out'.

 

We don't want luxury.

We don't need an expensive kitchen...

And a basic 'wetroom style' bathroom would be fine for us.

 

The rest...laminated wood flooring, tongue and groove side panelling, electric wiring and plumbing, heating/radiators and stove are all, obviously essential.

But we're quite happy with 'loose' furniture and cupboards and storage.

 

The question is...

After buying a foamed and battened, expoxy painted, 'engineless'  shell that's 65' by 12'....could we create something simple and basic by spending another £25,000 ?

[MtB]

Is this £25k just for the materials and you’re doing all the work yourselves? If so I’d say probably yes, depending on how long your piece of string is. 

[Athy]

Welcome to CWDF, Dee. Just to let you know, you posted your topic twice so I've got rid of the duplicate one.

[Robbo]

 

54 minutes ago, Dee Kay said:

The question is...

After buying a foamed and battened, expoxy painted, 'engineless'  shell that's 65' by 12'....could we create something simple and basic by spending another £25,000 ?

Engineless?   The engine is probably going to be a large expense of around £10K.   That doesn't leave much for the rest of the boat and you can easily spend £25K just on that.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Robbo

[stegra]

If the shell is 'engineless' then I'd say your fit-out would be extremely simple and basic on that budget. 

[OldGoat]

53 minutes ago, Dee Kay said:

 ..........

 

We don't want luxury.

We don't need an expensive kitchen...

And a basic 'wetroom style' bathroom would be fine for us.

 

The rest...laminated wood flooring, tongue and groove side panelling, electric wiring and plumbing, heating/radiators and stove are all, obviously essential.

But we're quite happy with 'loose' furniture and cupboards and storage.

 

The question is...

After buying a foamed and battened, expoxy painted, 'engineless'  shell that's 65' by 12'....could we create something simple and basic by spending another £25,000 ?

You mention 'engineless' shell? That's most unusual, most sailaways have an engine. You won't be popular or allowed to put it on the water or be welcome in any marina without a means of propulsion and generating electricity and hot water. As I type this another two replies have added to my thoughts...

Moveable furniture - OK

Some floor based cupboards - OK

However, anything of 'full height' will need to be tailored or more sensibly built in.

I have doubts about a wetroom and if created badly can and will cause a lot of problems in a boat as the hull and partitions will flex and must be all be allowed for.

Easy to spend £25k and perhaps more on what you consider to be basic. Especially as cables and pipework are not easy to conceal in a lined out shell.

 

A lot of planning and understanding of what can be achieved in a boat is needed!  

[Robbo]

1 minute ago, OldGoat said:

That's most unusual, most sailaways have an engine.

Guessing this is called a pullaway.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Dee Kay said:

My partner and I have been actively looking for a boat that suits our needs, tastes and budget for the last few months.

It's been both interesting and frustrating in equal measure.

We visited the Crick Boat Show in May and since then have been looking at different marinas both in London and in the Midlands and we have viewed some private sales too.

We have slowly come to the conclusion that a wide-beam may well be the most comfortable option for us.

Obviously that would mean that we would be restricted in terms of the places we'd be able to visit and if we wanted to go from north to south or vice versa we'd have to get the boat out of the water...around 'blacking time' perhaps...and drop it back in...

But...the extra space would be nice.

So...we are now looking at buying a widebeam shell (65' by 12')

The one we have in mind has side doors, portholes and stainless steel mushrooms.

Inside it has ballast floor and it's been spray foamed and battened.

There's a stainless steel water tank and the hull has been done with epoxy paint.

It seems that it's ready to 'fit out'.

 

We don't want luxury.

We don't need an expensive kitchen...

And a basic 'wetroom style' bathroom would be fine for us.

 

The rest...laminated wood flooring, tongue and groove side panelling, electric wiring and plumbing, heating/radiators and stove are all, obviously essential.

But we're quite happy with 'loose' furniture and cupboards and storage.

 

The question is...

After buying a foamed and battened, expoxy painted, 'engineless'  shell that's 65' by 12'....could we create something simple and basic by spending another £25,000 ? 

After fitting an engine, you may have enough left to buy a couple of foam sleeping pads, and a couple of sleeping bags.

If you were to shop very wisely, you may also get a box of matches and some sticks.

 

Ball-park (and very dependent upon requirements) you will probably spend £2k + on stove and fitting it (building a hearth, fireproofing the walls, cutting hole in the roof for the flue, flue, etc etc)

Electrics will be in excess of £1k

Batteries could easily be £1k (I have 6 batteries at £170 each)

Heating system (diesel fired) will be £1k+Radiators £?

 

How much work will you be doing and how much will be 'paid for' labour.

 

Is the boat to be a liveaboard - the requirements for who can fit Gas (for example) vary depending on if it is a Liveaboard or a leisure boat ?

 

Are you in a position where you are still 'working' whilst trying to fit-out ?

If so, fitting out has been regularly known to take in excess of 5 years.

 

There is a reason why a 'sailaway' widebeam shell is £38,000 and a finished boat is £120,000

Edited August 23, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Dee Kay]

19 minutes ago, Robbo said:

 

Engineless?   The engine is probably going to be a large expense of around £10K.   That doesn't leave much for the rest of the boat and you can easily spend £25K just on that.

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yes, we still have to add an engine and I have been quoted £7K for the engine plus fitting

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yes, we still have to add an engine and I have been quoted £7K for the engine plus fitting

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Dee Kay said:

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yes, we still have to add an engine and I have been quoted £7K for the engine plus fitting

Is the 'plus fitting' a fixed cost - there can be a huge cost add-on if the things like engine bearers are not in the correct place for the chosen engine, 

(Does the engine cost include gearbox ? - another £1k+)

 

Is this 'shell' being purchased from an accredited boat builder, or a 'home build' ?

Has it been built in accordance with RCD requirements ?

Does it come complete with RCD documentation up to that level of build ?

 

Tread very carefully.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Dee Kay said:

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yes, we still have to add an engine and I have been quoted £7K for the engine plus fitting

I think you may struggle with only around £15K, although remember a fit out usually takes a long time so it's not upfront cost, but as you go cost.

 

Here is how easy it is too spend £10K on just a few items...

 

Lining Plywood	£600
Ceiling TGV	£1,500.00
Flooring	£2,000.00
Stove	£1,800
Diesel Boiler	£2,000
Fridge	£600
Cooker	£500
Hob	£200
Batteries	£600
Combi (Inverter/Charger)	£1,300

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Robbo said:

I think you may struggle with only around £15K, although remember a fit out usually takes a long time so it's not upfront cost, but as you go cost.

 

Here is how easy it is too spend £10K on just a few items...

 

Lining Plywood	£600
Ceiling TGV	£1,500.00
Flooring	£2,000.00
Stove	£1,800
Diesel Boiler	£2,000
Fridge	£600
Cooker	£500
Hob	£200
Batteries	£600
Combi (Inverter/Charger)	£1,300

 

Total £11,100 + (Specialist ?) labour for gas, diesel heater and electric installation.

 

When working to a minimum budget every £1000 matters.

[David Mack]

Take a look at the Narrowboat Builders Book by Graham Booth. It's a bit long in the tooth now, and relates to a narrowboat, not a wide beam. But it will give you an idea of what is involved, how much he spent (in c.1993 prices) and how long it took.

[RLWP]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

Take a look at the Narrowboat Builders Book by Graham Booth. It's a bit long in the tooth now, and relates to a narrowboat, not a wide beam. But it will give you an idea of what is involved, how much he spent (in c.1993 prices) and how long it took.

It's also going to be a bit light on the electrical installation. It's noticeable how much has changed in that field since 2003, let alone 1993

 

Richard

[Athy]

An excellent, and very well-written, book.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Athy

[Stilllearning]

28 minutes ago, Dee Kay said:

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yes, we still have to add an engine and I have been quoted £7K for the engine plus fitting

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yes, we still have to add an engine and I have been quoted £7K for the engine plus fitting

Hi

Dont be totally put off by all the realists who have replied, but they are being quite sensible really. 

If you are competent DIY people and can plan accurately for what needs to be done, you might get away with 25k for the fitout but probably you will need more to get the engine/gearbox bought and installed. Fitting a boat is almost completely unlike fitting out a house. For a start, throw away any spirit levels you may own!

[Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Total £11,100 + (Specialist ?) labour for gas, diesel heater and electric installation.

 

When working to a minimum budget every £1000 matters.

Aye forgot to mention, that's just cost of the items.

 

Also forgot the boaters favourite of the toilet as well, that's easily £500-1000.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Robbo said:

Aye forgot to mention, that's just cost of the items.

 

Also forgot the boaters favourite of the toilet as well, that's easily £500-1000.

Cassette - Composting - Holding Tank ?

Freezer ?

Bed

Bedding

Sink / Draining board

Shower / Bath

Wash Basin

Radiators

Lounge Furniture

Kitchen Units

 

and on & on & on ……………….

 

 

[Robbo]

 

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

and on & on & on ……………….

 

 

Yeah, my todo list doesn't have them on yet so I've not priced them up ?

 

My fitout list is around £32K so far, but that's including some high purchase items I may not go for (like a Kabola Combi).   I think by the time I've done, I will be approaching £40K,  however my budget is "oh that looks pretty, we'll have that".

Edited August 23, 2018 by Robbo

[OldGoat]

Just now, Athy said:

n excellent, and very well-written, book

Both editions!

If buying a sailaway / drag away built to order, then it's best, nay essential to get any extra large holes in the hull (chimney vent for a stove, ceiling vents and extra vent with fan for your swimming bath wetroom.

I've seen some horrible cable and pipe layouts done by 'professional' boatbuilders and posted on various forums as acceptable, whereas if trunking channels in the floor for water supplies, under gunnel ditto for 240v and 12v sockets and ceiling channels at either side for aerial cables, ceiling lights etc are provided in the build then fitting radiators, llights, sockets yourselves is so much, much easier than fiddling around on the outside of the lining.

If you're very clever in pre-planning where the main service goes then getting the waste outlet holes and fittings done at the hull stage will be even better.  That will / should cost a lot less than having the feature added as you fit the boat out.

 

I would seriously consider having your low voltage supplies set at 24v and NOT 12v. IME the equipment is much more reliable and sometime less expensive that the 12v equivalent. Don't skimp on the number / capacity of batteries - provide a good clean accessible area for them rather than underestimate and have to fiddle around later.

 

It's all quite do-able, if you're sensible and PLAN AHEAD.  

[grahame r]

Presumably ypu are getting a very good deal on the shell? say £10,000 would be a bargain. If you had come on this forum with the question "I have £35,000.00 to spend and want to live on a widebeam, what should I do?" Every sensible answer would be to look at the bottom end of the second hand market, expect a boat about 20 years old (when widebeams started to gain popularity) and expect to have to do a lot of remedial work.

You shouldn't be paying more than £20,000.00 for the  engineless shell so if your question had been "I have £45,000.00 to spend and want to live on a widebeam , what should I do?" The answer would be similar but perhaps 10-15 years old but again a basic boat with work to do. 

There are undoubtedly bargains out there especially in the second hand market where maintenance and pride of ownership can make all the difference between a good basic useable boat and pile of scrap metal but buying one of the former and working your way up over the years as your knowledge of what you want and what is available grows is, in my opinion, the way to go.      

[mrsmelly]

Apart from all the stuff mentioned don't underestimate painting costs and the oodles of little things such as just light fittings and mains sockets etc etc as they all add up!!

[stegra]

Also factor in the cost of being on a hardstanding/mooring whilst the work is undertaken. 

[Nut]

Dee any reason not to buy what's already on the market , some lovely boats out there for sale

[reg]

59 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Apart from all the stuff mentioned don't underestimate painting costs and the oodles of little things such as just light fittings and mains sockets etc etc as they all add up!!

And don't underestimate the cost of wood finishing, when I totaled up my narrowboat fit out I was suprised to find that the cost of wood stain, varnish brushes, sand paper etc, etc, came to as much as the initial wood and trim. 

So rule of thumb for me is for a full fit out cost the wood and then double it. 

Tip I was given for tongue and groove, particularly on the ceiling, was to give the same number of coats of varnish to the back as to the front. This was to prevent warping. I can vouch 11 years on that this was good advice. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by reg