Houdini Hatch

[Gra73]

Hi Guys,

My hatch is leaking slightly when under severe rainfall as we’ve had recently. I think it is due to the severe heat we had over the summer, causing the rubber to perish, the outer rubber seems fine, it is the rubber seal between the glass and the frame.

Is there a silicone or sealant I can apply to this seal?

picture attached (it is the black seal between the glass and frame)

[rusty69]

Try these guys 

 

https://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/

[Boater Sam]

The glass is sealed into the ally frame with the stuff that they bond windscreens in on cars, its tenacious.

The problem is that the ally frame is bent around the glass and sealed at the same, you cannot remove the glass easily. It is not a replaceable seal. I know. I have 3 and they all leak at times.

I did manage to force the glass out of one but its scary and getting it back to shape again is a bitch, and it still leaks.

The glass is smaller than the groove in the frame both in thickness and overall size. It is centralised thickness wise with tiny packer on both sides but it has to be centralised in the groove at the same time.

 

So avoid getting too involved and risking wrecking it, they are £450 a go.

I would remove the outer rubber seal, its in a groove, the screws holding the bars, catches and hinges. Cut away the protruding sealing compound, both inside and out, undercutting it slightly. Clean the glass and frame with acetone to thoroughly degrease it. Buy some professional windscreen sealant and gun it all round both sides. Let it cure for 2 days and refit, sealing every bar, hinge and screw as you go. Refit the outer seal, and hope it is sealed.

 

With my problem ones I am going to cut the frame on the diagonal opposite to the original joint, and refit it with another ally  jointing piece.  I can then get the frame off and the glass out to strip both completely and reseal it properly with new spacers and compound.

 

The outer seal rubber is available from Houdini or Seals Direct but is usually OK.

[Gra73]

Wow! Thanks Sam. 

Thats a really helpful and comprehensive bit of information.

I was hoping there was a sealant you could ‘wipe’ around that seal like you would on a shower!

thanks again for the info.

Gra

[Boater Sam]

I tried that first off! 

It doesn't work due to the vastly different expansion between the glass and the ally frame plus the catches pull the frame slightly out of shape. So a thin film will not stay sealed.

The sealing compound seems to have a life of about 20 years, which aint bad really,

 

When you come to remove any it is like it has turned to cheese.

 

As a stop gap to keep the wet out, try cling filming the whole opening light.

[Gra73]

Yeah Cheers Dude, As you can see I’m ‘tarped’ up at the moment from the outside with bricks keeping it firm to the roof!

[Boater Sam]

I have found a supplier offering the Super 50 which I think you may have, at £285.99.

[Gra73]

Really; do you have the details please? Thank you for researching that, I appreciate your help.

Still a bit of a blow though isn’t it!

[Boater Sam]

Its a lot of cash to fix a leak but I've ordered one to replace my worst leaker, I have just got fed up with trying to cure it.

I've poured pva around it, tried overcoating with proper sealant, tried silicone. 

I will try to change the new unit into the existing roof frame to save unbolting it, it was fastened with nuts and bolts, the nuts are in the lining now.

 See     https://www.marinescene.co.uk 

This is the best price I could find other than an acrylic replacement which I don't fancy, and its not that much cheaper either.

Hope this is of help to you.

Sam.

[Gra73]

Thanks Pal, much appreciated, let me know how the fitting goes!

what do you do with the other two that still leak???

[Boater Sam]

I'm going to cut the old one and do a serious rebuild on it so it will replace my other 50 size one, t'other is a smaller one, half size and will also have to be cut.

At least I won't have a big hole open to the rain!

Sam.

[W+T]

I agree with Sam, no point in bothering, also been there and done that, Creeping crack worked for a while though.

 

What i did was build a dam around around the leaking edge and filled it with Creeping Crack and left it for a while to fill any gaps/cracks. 

 

 

Here is a Houdini 55 thats not bad price

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Houdini-Super-500-Deck-Hatch-Yacht-Motorhome-Skylight-Boat-Sailing-Free-Sealer/142682168564?epid=1805473903&hash=item2138851cf4:g:jIAAAOxyeR9TFuXm

[Boater Sam]

Marine Scene are selling these on their web site for less! £285.99 I have ordered one.

Marine Store £290

 

I tried the creeping crack method with pva, which I suspect is the same stuff. It worked for a week till the sun got at it. The resulting expansion opened it up again.

I think the basic problem is the original sealant breaking down and not adhering to the aluminium. The stress of the catches and the expansion pulls it off, as I said it turns into black cheese.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Boater Sam
added more

[pearley]

I had always assumed that our hatches were Houdini until I read these posts about taking them apart.. Fortunately mine don't leak, yet and with the secondary double glazing any drips would land on top of the perspex. 

 

I would say the method of keeping them open is crap which why most boats that have this design prop them up with bits of wood. 

[Boater Sam]

3 minutes ago, pearley said:

I had always assumed that our hatches were Houdini until I read these posts about taking them apart.. Fortunately mine don't leak, yet and with the secondary double glazing any drips would land on top of the perspex. 

 

I would say the method of keeping them open is crap which why most boats that have this design prop them up with bits of wood. 

No, not Houdini.

Your comment about propping them open confused me until I realised that you were probably talking about the latter ones with the adjustable arms and no catches.

Mine are the early stick in a hole type stay which is simple and foolproof. For mild ventilation the 2 catches can be locked into the groove around the roof frame or turned to sit on top for a bit more fresh air.

The other bugbear is the condensation off the ally frame in winter, its interior rainstorm even with good ventilation sometimes.

Sam.

 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

not Houdini.

Your comment about propping them open confused me until I realised that you were probably talking about the latter ones with the adjustable arms and no catches.

Mine are the early stick in a hole type stay which is simple and foolproof. For mild ventilation the 2 catches can be locked into the groove around the roof frame or turned to sit on top for a bit more fresh air.

The other bugbear is the condensation off the ally frame in winter, its interior rainstorm even with good ventilation sometimes.

Sam.

Mine have two pieces of perspex, probably derived from a fluorescent light diffuser, mounted underneath them,  held in place by simply by adding adding central wooden support to the wooden hatch surround. 

 

Catches the drips in winter and dead flies in summer.

[Old Son]

I too have had a lot of leakage problems. I have now made timber boxes that sit over my hatches, painted same colour as roof. The contact edge of the box to the roof has a layer of weed hatch foam on it. No more leaks, easy to move when it’s dry, I move them to the front of the roof and put them back if it starts to rain. 

 

I also have have wooden frames internally with Perspex centres which stop all condensation. 

[Boater Sam]

I have been boxing mine every winter whilst we are abroad but I am sick of the leaks and being beaten in my attempts to cure them.

The first new one arrived today from Marine Scene  & I found another new one for slightly less cash  on ebay so bought that one too. 

I'll rebuild the originals and maybe sell them on.

[rusty69]

Boxing houdini v Jack Dempsey

[Boater Sam]

Awe stuff, rusty, we were having a sensible conversation. Is that Hitler in the center? Were they going to shoot the loser?

[rusty69]

Consider me gone (in a cloud of smoke) ......pufttttttt..

 

Fwiw, though. My houdini style hatch on grp yacht has never leaked, perhaps they are not suited to steel boats, or poorly installed. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by rusty69

[Clodi]

I expect you know about Captain Tolleys I've been lucky and found judicious  amounts of creeping crack cure has fixed things for me.

[Boater Sam]

Yes, but it won't cure a leaking Houdini bonded glass, ask how I know that!