Connecting the waterways to the Norfolk and Suffolk Broads

[jetzi]

I'm from Norwich and I spent much of my childhood around the Norfolk Broads. I still have a lot of family in East Anglia and I really love this part of the country. The Broads are not connected to the rest of the waterways and the rivers, lakes and New Cut canal are populated by substantially different craft than on the main network of canals!

 

I noticed this thread from someone asking if there was a connection, and if there isn't, how to transport his boat to the main waterway network:
 

 

Personally, I'd love it if the extensive waterways of the Broads were linked to the main system.

 

How pie-in-the-sky an idea is it to cut a link - have there ever been plans to do so? If a connection was constructed, where would it be, would it need many locks, would it be ? How would the different lengths of narrowboat fare on the Broads...?

 

What about an over-ground link? How about a permanent road-based boat transport service with cranes on either end, like a "ferry", that would move your boat from the Broads waterways to the main network?

 

I'm really just dreaming, this is a not-so-serious thread. Just wondering if anyone else has any dreams or thoughts about this, or if you have any links to articles or maps that hint at such a connection. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

If your boat is capable of coastal journeys it is already possible. Out from the inland network at the Wash, or the Thames, then round the East Anglian Coast to one of the sea entries in to the Broads.

 

Jen

[Phil Ambrose]

1 hour ago, ivan&alice said:

I'm from Norwich and I spent much of my childhood around the Norfolk Broads. I still have a lot of family in East Anglia and I really love this part of the country. The Broads are not connected to the rest of the waterways and the rivers, lakes and New Cut canal are populated by substantially different craft than on the main network of canals!

 

I noticed this thread from someone asking if there was a connection, and if there isn't, how to transport his boat to the main waterway network:
 

 

Personally, I'd love it if the extensive waterways of the Broads were linked to the main system.

 

How pie-in-the-sky an idea is it to cut a link - have there ever been plans to do so? If a connection was constructed, where would it be, would it need many locks, would it be ? How would the different lengths of narrowboat fare on the Broads...?

 

What about an over-ground link? How about a permanent road-based boat transport service with cranes on either end, like a "ferry", that would move your boat from the Broads waterways to the main network?

 

I'm really just dreaming, this is a not-so-serious thread. Just wondering if anyone else has any dreams or thoughts about this, or if you have any links to articles or maps that hint at such a connection. 

The Broads Authority do operate a length restriction. 

Phil 

[bizzard]

[Neil2]

I used to have an amphibious car it was a Scubaru.

 

 

 

Getting my coat now.

[jetzi]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If your boat is capable of coastal journeys it is already possible. Out from the inland network at the Wash, or the Thames, then round the East Anglian Coast to one of the sea entries in to the Broads.

Yes, if you have an ocean-going craft of less than 7' beam and 2' draft I guess that is an option! I've heard of going out to sea being done in a narrowboat before, the thought of that really does send some butterflies going though! Is rounding East Anglia in a narrowboat something at people do / have done??


A bit small for a liveaboard though, @blizzard and @Neil2  !

 

34 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

The Broads Authority do operate a length restriction. 

That's interesting - do you know what the maximum length is? I suppose at present you're limited by what you could put on a truck - what's the longest boat you can transport by road?

 

I wonder if the Broads Authority might consider revising their length restriction if they could link up with the rest of the waterways and be one big happy waterway family...

[Phil Ambrose]

3 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Yes, if you have an ocean-going craft of less than 7' beam and 2' draft I guess that is an option! I've heard of going out to sea being done in a narrowboat before, the thought of that really does send some butterflies going though! Is rounding East Anglia in a narrowboat something at people do / have done??


A bit small for a liveaboard though, @blizzard and @Neil2  !

 

That's interesting - do you know what the maximum length is? I suppose at present you're limited by what you could put on a truck - what's the longest boat you can transport by road?

 

I wonder if the Broads Authority might consider revising their length restriction if they could link up with the rest of the waterways and be one big happy waterway family...

The Broads infrastructure would not support a influx if NBs even if they were of a suitable length . All the honey pot moorings are stern on and having a huge lump of NB sticking out into a flood tide on a spring tide is a bit daunting.  There is very little provision for fresh water supplies and Elsan points don't exist, nor do self pump outs .

The Broads have their own uniqueness and I believe that's how it should remain, it's a bit like if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Phil 

[David Mack]

35 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Yes, if you have an ocean-going craft of less than 7' beam and 2' draft I guess that is an option! I've heard of going out to sea being done in a narrowboat before, the thought of that really does send some butterflies going though! Is rounding East Anglia in a narrowboat something at people do / have done??

 

Naughty Cal of the forum has done the trip in her cruiser which is about 9 ft beam I think.

[b0atman]

1 hour ago, Phil Ambrose said:

The Broads Authority do operate a length restriction. 

Phil 

i used to see naval vessels and timber cargo ships going to Norwich

[Phil Ambrose]

22 minutes ago, b0atman said:

i used to see naval vessels and timber cargo ships going to Norwich

On the Wensum not on the Broads and associated rivers. Try taking a NB up the Ant and see how far you get without T  Boning or being T Boned. Many blind bends which are very close together. It's challenging in places with a 40 ft boat. I speak from having lived aboard on the Broads for 10 years 

Phil 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, b0atman said:

i used to see naval vessels and timber cargo ships going to Norwich

. 

[Scholar Gypsy]

Many years ago there were plans to connect the Little Ouse  to the Waveney. As this page explains they rise very close together... Indeed I am sure I read somewhere that some parts of the Little Ouse used to flow East, and now flow west. I think due to enormous sandstorms moving the hills (sic) around a bit. 

As it is there is quite a bit of Norfolk that you can get to from the main system. I agree with comments above that it would not be a good idea to join the systems up - they are very different!  There are some quite well developed plans to reopen the Little Ouse to Thetford - quite simple in engineering terms I think. (Article by Martin Ludgate in a  recent edition of Canal Boat).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Little_Ouse

[Grebe]

We had our narrowboat, Grebe on the Broads for 17 years, the last 9 at the top of the Ant in Stalham (see location).  Phil Ambrose is spot-on, Boradland does not have the infrastructure to accomodate boats much over 40 feet in length.  Grebe was only 25 ft so was actually dwarfed by most wide beam Broads boats.  We fitted in all places but a bright red NB attracted lots of attention, we had to do things 'right'.  Another concern would be hull blacking tranferring to white GRP hulls - we had weathershield paint on thr hull sides so no residue.  You have to be good neighbours.

 

46 ft is the limit for access to all waters.  You can be much longer on the main rivers.  There are long NBs on the Waveney, New Cut and other Southern Rivers.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

21 hours ago, bizzard said:

I quite liked a quote I recently read about these, it has the unique achievement of being crap as both a car and a boat (doesn't handle well as either). Is that steering wheel really in the middle of the dashboard? that would cover why it is crap as a car then

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I quite liked a quote I recently read about these, it has the unique achievement of being crap as both a car and a boat (doesn't handle well as either). Is that steering wheel really in the middle of the dashboard? that would cover why it is crap as a car then

 

The best compliment I heard about the Amphicar was "We like to think of it as the fastest car on the water and fastest boat on the road."

[Tony Brooks]

There have been historical proposed schemes for linking the Broads to the rest of the system involving the Waveny and I think the Little Ouse near Thetford way but they never came to anything. It is almost certain that nowadays it would not be allowed because of joining two catchment systems with the danger of unknown ecological consequences. At one time the Waveny was navigable way above the present head of navigation which I think is at Geldestone.

[nbfiresprite]

5 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Many years ago there were plans to connect the Little Ouse  to the Waveney. As this page explains they rise very close together... Indeed I am sure I read somewhere that some parts of the Little Ouse used to flow East, and now flow west. I think due to enormous sandstorms moving the hills (sic) around a bit. 

As it is there is quite a bit of Norfolk that you can get to from the main system. I agree with comments above that it would not be a good idea to join the systems up - they are very different!  There are some quite well developed plans to reopen the Little Ouse to Thetford - quite simple in engineering terms I think. (Article by Martin Ludgate in a  recent edition of Canal Boat).

https://en.wiankipedia.org/wiki/River_Little_Ouse

The little Ouse and the Waveney are either side of the  B1113 road between Redgrave and South Lopham so less than 20 foot apart. It is possable to travel from the Broads to the main system by canoe with just a one portage across the road, There was a TV program made some years ago doing just that.

[jetzi]

I found this article promoting the restoration of navigation to Thetford: http://democracy.breckland.gov.uk/documents/s47344/6a-little-ouse-navigation.pdf

 

Looking on Google maps I believe this is where the source of the Little Ouse meets the source of the Waveney,near the village of Blo' Norton. I'd imagine these rivers are little more than swampy ground here, though!

[jetzi]

So I did some reading and the current limit of the Little Ouse navigation is a few miles after the town of Brandon at this bridge - however, boats have in the past made it as far as Thetford and there are at least dreams of restoring the navigation.

 

The limit of the Waveney is Geldeston, a village just after Beccles, I think at this bridge. But, three mills and three disused locks later and you get to Bungay, so theoretically this navigation could also be restored.

 

That just leaves 30 miles of cut to connect the two navigable rivers. Not sure how much of this or any could be covered by engineering the unnavigable sections of the rivers.

 

 

Are there any navigable sections of the two networks that are closer than Thetford and Bungay?

[erivers]

Although the aspiration to reopen the Little Ouse from Brandon to Thetford for navigation is very much alive and has great support from many quarters, including Thetford Town Council,  Breckland District Council, IWA and EAWA it is not quite as easy as some might wish.   There was a full, costed engineering survey completed in 2005 - AVAILABLE HERE -  which showed that four new locks would be required and to make navigation possible for canal boats Brandon Lock would also need to be extended from its current 40 feet length.

The most recent development was publication in September 2016 of the "River Little Ouse Waterspace Study" available from the Thetford TC website: http://www.thetfordtowncouncil.gov.uk/council/documents/

It's a pity that over the last year or so, the river between Brandon and Santon Downham (previously accessible to small cruisers) has become obstructed in places by fallen trees, removal of which no one will take responsibility for, and attempts by some 'nature' groups to re-wild the river by placement of large boulders to slow flows.

[ditchcrawler]

19 hours ago, erivers said:

 

It's a pity that over the last year or so, the river between Brandon and Santon Downham (previously accessible to small cruisers) has become obstructed in places by fallen trees, removal of which no one will take responsibility for,

 

More than a year, I took a canoe above Brandon lock when I was moored down the Little Ouse, must be 4 years ago now

 

and attempts by some 'nature' groups to re-wild the river by placement of large boulders to slow flows.

I thought that was EA policy now

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

Slightly off topic, I came across this link in a recent EAWA newsletter

 

http://broadssailing.com/

[NigelMoore]

I have not discovered the plan for this, mentioned by the author of ‘A General History of Inland Navigation, Foreign and Domestic’, but he notes that in 1802 “A canal is in agitation to be formed, by which a complete line of inland navigation between Lynn, in Norfolk, under the direction of Mr R. Dodd; it is to be named The North London Canal, and is expected to be the only means of reducing the price of the principal articles of provision in London markets.”

 

Presumably he refers to King’s Lynn, and the route need not have included access to the Broads, but it is intriguing.

[Scholar Gypsy]

5 minutes ago, NigelMoore said:

I have not discovered the plan for this, mentioned by the author of ‘A General History of Inland Navigation, Foreign and Domestic’, but he notes that in 1802 “A canal is in agitation to be formed, by which a complete line of inland navigation between Lynn, in Norfolk, under the direction of Mr R. Dodd; it is to be named The North London Canal, and is expected to be the only means of reducing the price of the principal articles of provision in London markets.”

 

Presumably he refers to King’s Lynn, and the route need not have included access to the Broads, but it is intriguing.

I'd read a bit about plans to connect Bishops Stortford to Cambridge, but this link refers to  a much grander scheme to connect London to Norwich! As far as  I can see the latter would have broadly followed the coast, and so would have connected to the Chelmer and Blackwater, which is a bit tricky to get to by narrow boat ...  

I think many of the improvements to the Ely Ouse were made after 1802, though many of the guide books are rather vague!

http://www.leeandstort.co.uk/Stort History/Part 1.pdf

[NigelMoore]

On 21/08/2018 at 15:31, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I quite liked a quote I recently read about these, it has the unique achievement of being crap as both a car and a boat (doesn't handle well as either). Is that steering wheel really in the middle of the dashboard? that would cover why it is crap as a car then

 

On the other hand the Dutton is still going strong. This was only a few weeks ago -