Peter Thornton Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) Cruising back from Llangollen, enjoying the Sunday challenge of the hire boats, when we waited at Chirk Tunnel for a convoy of boats to come through. Waved on by the final boat, a check for oncoming, and set off into the tunnel. About halfway we became aware of a tiny pinprick of light along with two canoeists. We stopped and were angrily told that they were first and we must reverse! Eventually, after much shouting and screaming from the paddlers they hoisted the canoe onto the towpath and carried it the rest of the way. We pointed out that their torch was completely inadequate and they protested that it was “what they had been given”. Has anyone come across this before? Surely it can’t be a hire company? Outward Bound? Edited August 19, 2018 by Peter Thornton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) Don’t the signs say “no unpowered vessels”? This lot presumably. Seems very irresponsible. http://www.tnrcoaching.co.uk/canoe-hire/4591597716 Edited August 19, 2018 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Thornton Posted August 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) Should have checked on the way out but according to the CRT website canoes are allowed in Chirk Tunnel but advised to travel on groups of three with a good head torch and a whistle. Edited August 19, 2018 by Peter Thornton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewIC Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 CRT policy changed some while back. Canoes are now permitted in a variety of dangerous and unsuitable tunnels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peter Thornton said: Cruising back from Llangollen, enjoying the Sunday challenge of the hire boats, when we waited at Chirk Tunnel for a convoy of boats to come through. Waved on by the final boat, a check for oncoming, and set off into the tunnel. About halfway we became aware of a tiny pinprick of light along with two canoeists. We stopped and were angrily told that they were first and we must reverse! Eventually, after much shouting and screaming from the paddlers they hoisted the canoe onto the towpath and carried it the rest of the way. We pointed out that their torch was completely inadequate and they protested that it was “what they had been given”. Has anyone come across this before? Surely it can’t be a hire company? Outward Bound? I would raise this with CRT. Although at Chirk you can see the other end it would be very hard to see a canoe, especially if they were not at the entrance. And as the towpath runs along side a head torch can be mistaken as someone walking along the path itself. The only solution if they want to canoe down would be to send someone down to stop boats entering the tunnel, especially as this place can be very busy. (You have to do this in places along the Llangollen anyhow, as it’s only one boats width in a few places) Edited August 19, 2018 by Robbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 I shall go invent rustys kayak nav light hat. A green and red light and a bobble hat should suffice for the prototype.Mmmm, where to stick the battery? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Thornton Posted August 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Robbo said: I would raise this with CRT. Although at Chirk you can see the other end it would be very hard to see a canoe, especially if they were not at the entrance. And as the towpath runs along side a head torch can be mistaken as someone walking along the path itself. The only solution if they want to canoe down would be to send someone down to stop boats entering the tunnel. (You have to do this in places along the Llangollen anyhow, as it’s only one boats width in a few places) The other way would be to follow a boat through and to ask them to warn oncoming boats. But really, if these firms are going to hire out canoes to go through tunnels then they need to equip them with decent lights. A powerful led light is not that difficult to fix up really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Peter Thornton said: The other way would be to follow a boat through and to ask them to warn oncoming boats. But really, if these firms are going to hire out canoes to go through tunnels then they need to equip them with decent lights. A powerful led light is not that difficult to fix up really. I agree, it would need to be a static light shining upwards like a tunnel light should do. If it’s moving around like a head torch then it’s easly mistaken for someone on the towpath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Peter Thornton said: The other way would be to follow a boat through and to ask them to warn oncoming boats. But really, if these firms are going to hire out canoes to go through tunnels then they need to equip them with decent lights. A powerful led light is not that difficult to fix up really. I agree.If it is a hire company, then kitting out "tunnel kayaks" with a suitable pole mounted light, and navlights with a suitable battery shore based re-charging system wouldn't be too difficult. A quick google reveals this https://www.cornwall-canoes.co.uk/kayak-fishing/kayak-fishing-safety/railblaza-visibility-kit-2.htm Edited August 19, 2018 by rusty69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, rusty69 said: I agree.If it is a hire company, then kitting out "tunnel kayaks" with a suitable pole mounted light, and navlights with a suitable battery shore based re-charging system wouldn't be too difficult. A quick google reveals this https://www.cornwall-canoes.co.uk/kayak-fishing/kayak-fishing-safety/railblaza-visibility-kit-2.htm They could fit them with AIS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: They could fit them with AIS. and RDF, ILS and GPS.....must be fitted above the DECCA (remember them) Edited August 19, 2018 by rusty69 F NOT S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, rusty69 said: DECCA (remember them) Certainly do - the 1st fishing boat (at Holyhead) we had was equipped with a DECCA, it was only rented as you couldn't by the equipment. We were on the Irish Sea Chain 3B and I still have the old paperwork somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: 16 minutes ago, rusty69 said: Certainly do - the 1st fishing boat (at Holyhead) we had was equipped with a DECCA, it was only rented as you couldn't by the equipment. We were on the Irish Sea Chain 3B and I still have the old paperwork somewhere Jeez, you're older than I thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, rusty69 said: Jeez, you're older than I thought! Thank you that's the nicest thing anyone has said to me in the last 5 minutes. Trying to find a wreck to fish was pot-luck. DECCA - accurate to about 1 mile if it wasn't raining or the sun shining - we had a saying "if you cannot see the top of Holyhead mountain it is raining, if you can see the top of Holyhead mountain it will be raining within a couple of hours" Edited August 19, 2018 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said: Thank you that's the nicest thing anyone has said to me in the last 5 minutes. Aww, you know I don't mean it Alan.You don't look a day over 68! Edited August 19, 2018 by rusty69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Trying to find a wreck to fish was pot-luck. DECCA - accurate to about 1 mile if it wasn't raining or the sun shining - we had a saying "if you cannot see the top of Holyhead mountain it is raining, if you can see the top of Holyhead mountain it will be raining within a couple of hours" We had a DECCA electronic navigator (well its was my dads really), he liked shiny new gadgets.It was a bugger to program, and never particularily accurate where we sailed, but a good learning experience for the soon to follow GPS. Amd now, back to canoes in Chirk tunnel...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbfiresprite Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 hour ago, AndrewIC said: CRT policy changed some while back. Canoes are now permitted in a variety of dangerous and unsuitable tunnels. Clearly the Prat who changed this policy never checked with the legal first. The first canoeist who is hit by a boat in a tunnel and killed or injuried. Will result in a major legal case, costing CRT a heavy cost for legal fees and damages. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said: Clearly the Prat who changed this policy never checked with the legal first. The first canoeist who is hit by a boat in a tunnel and killed or injuried. Will result in a major legal case, costing CRT a heavy cost for legal fees and damages. Probably the same Prat who decided to use Towpaths for a Cycle Racetrack?same sort of Jeopardy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) Ever since Noah (he was real wasn't he),some fool will take an ill equipped, unsuitable boat on inappropriate waters in poor conditions un-prepared. Yes I am going kayaking and sailing next week. Edited August 19, 2018 by rusty69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 58 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: They could fit them with AIS. Will that work in a tunnel ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyG Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 A youtube vlog by The Tiller People showing the problem exactly, in this instance the helmsman could not see the canoes, he was alerted by Bernadette on the bow. 8.15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czq1L5NE_IY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, LadyG said: A youtube vlog by The Tiller People showing the problem exactly, in this instance the helmsman could not see the canoes, he was alerted by Bernadette on the bow. 8.15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czq1L5NE_IY it would be ok for Canoes to go through Tunnels as long as they were pulled by a Horse ,Boaters could hear the Clip-Clop and become aware of their Presence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, cereal tiller said: it would be ok for Canoes to go through Tunnels as long as they were pulled by a Horse ,Boaters could hear the Clip-Clop and become aware of their Presence. A tunnel traffic light system could work. Or narrowboaters could portage their boat around the tunnel, thus avoiding a collision! Edited August 19, 2018 by rusty69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Will that work in a tunnel ? Does it matter - how many canal boats are fitted with AIS receivers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewIC Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 1 hour ago, cereal tiller said: it would be ok for Canoes to go through Tunnels as long as they were pulled by a Horse ,Boaters could hear the Clip-Clop and become aware of their Presence. Only if the canoeist had a pair of coconut shells to make the clip-clop noise while the horse swims through any tunnels without towpaths. (Yes, there are tunnels with no towpaths which are on the permitted list, including Barnton and Saltersford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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