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Composting Toilets. Clarification Please


Clodi

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4 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

And what did the land owner think

 

I doubt he knew so as Peter says, it was not a problem.

 

It won’t be a problem when one boater does it once in a while. Or even when 10 or 100 boaters do it once in a while. It becomes a problem when 5,000 boaters are all doing it, all on a regular basis.  

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Interesting to read comments about landfill site. I lived at Hayes West London for a while in the early 80s. Near us was a mahoosive gravel pit, it became depleted so the owner was left with a empty hole in the ground so he thought " I know what I'll do" and opened a landfill site. Over time his empty hole was now full so seeking a further profit centre he then sold the site destined to become a Science Park.

To achieve this the huge full hole had to be excavated, the very smelly spoil transported to who knows where and the fresh hole tanked out with clay and refilled. 

The whole site was surrounded by the world's biggest air freshener by way of spray heads all along the perimeter which sprayed out a lemon scent when the wind was in the direction of the houses near by. 

And woe betide anyone passing on 2 wheels!!

 

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On 10/11/2018 at 12:48, Tumshie said:

Unfortunately you're not wrong - supermarket plastic bags and bin/rubbish bags were for a while branded as biodegradable but the weren't, they were just degradable which of course there is a big difference. You're right the new degradable bags just break down quicker but just into smaller and smaller pits of plastic, which is fine if they're already in the land fill but a bit pants if they've blown off to break down in a pond or under a hedge. ?. Even biodegradable and compostable are not the same. But at least there are now more compostable option available that weren't before, baby/facial wipes for example and more companies are using plant based 'plastic' wrapping and packaging, I use plant based compostable nappy sacks to pick up my dog poo and a Swedish company called Naty have a full range of compostable/biodegradable baby care and hygiene products - I don't have children so I can't compare nappy prices but I would presume the compostable ones are more expense however the prices will come down as more people use them. https://www.biggreensmile.com/brands/naty.aspx?brand=Naty&sort=Q

May I ask what kind of composting toilet you have - did you buy one like the nature's head or did you make your own? :)

Sepperate Villa 7-8 years now for me it looked the best and has always performed well, mostlt 3 months beteen empties and 3 bins

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On 10/11/2018 at 20:15, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm curious about how you know the second part of your statement, given the first part of your statement. 

 

On 10/11/2018 at 22:53, ditchcrawler said:

And what did the land owner think

Well the green patch is still there and I suspect the land owner coulnt give two hoots, as the grass there is never cut. I have made a point of checking as I hve cruised past. As always you all make to much of something you have no intention of trying! I could put strong money on you all have peed in a canal or on the bank at sometime, and if you were in the forces you will have all dug a hole and had a dump in it!!

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On 12/11/2018 at 08:58, peterboat said:

 

Well the green patch is still there and I suspect the land owner coulnt give two hoots, as the grass there is never cut. I have made a point of checking as I hve cruised past. As always you all make to much of something you have no intention of trying! I could put strong money on you all have peed in a canal or on the bank at sometime, and if you were in the forces you will have all dug a hole and had a dump in it!!

A number of thoughts spring to mind.

 

First.  The grass hasn't been cut, so has it been grazed  by animals?  If not what on earth does the owner use it for?

 

Second.  Human solid waste can contain pathogens.  Some bacteria can survive and work their way to the surface many years after the infection.  Anthrax being an example.  Before somebody says it is unlikely for somebody to be carrying anthrax, this is true, but you do get carriers of various disease e.g. TB who show no signs.  As composting toilets increase in popularity I suspect contamination somewhere by some disease will happen.

 

Thirdly.   There is a large but noticeable difference between a single urination or burying  and three months worth being dumped or 2 or 3 gallons of liquid.   Before you ask yes I have in the long gone by been in the situations of digging a hole and burying things but not 3 months collection.

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49 minutes ago, Jerra said:

A number of thoughts spring to mind.

 

First.  The grass hasn't been cut, so has it been grazed  by animals?  If not what on earth does the owner use it for?

 

Second.  Human solid waste can contain pathogens.  Some bacteria can survive and work their way to the surface many years after the infection.  Anthrax being an example.  Before somebody says it is unlikely for somebody to be carrying anthrax, this is true, but you do get carriers of various disease e.g. TB who show no signs.  As composting toilets increase in popularity I suspect contamination somewhere by some disease will happen.

 

Thirdly.   There is a large but noticeable difference between a single urination or burying  and three months worth being dumped or 2 or 3 gallons of liquid.   Before you ask yes I have in the long gone by been in the situations of digging a hole and burying things but not 3 months collection.

I dont know who owns it all the time I have been boating acres and acres of land next to canals just stands there doing nowt! Anthrax well its more likely cows would be the carrier than us and that gets spread on fields as well. When we had the cottage in Scotland Duffy used to pump out our septic tank and mix it with slurry to spray on the fields no doubt he does the same for many other people in the area, yet there is no widespread decease from this is their? As I have said all along you do what works for you I will compost mine as I have done for years dig it in my garden and grow veg

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1 minute ago, peterboat said:

I dont know who owns it all the time I have been boating acres and acres of land next to canals just stands there doing nowt! Anthrax well its more likely cows would be the carrier than us and that gets spread on fields as well. When we had the cottage in Scotland Duffy used to pump out our septic tank and mix it with slurry to spray on the fields no doubt he does the same for many other people in the area, yet there is no widespread decease from this is their? As I have said all along you do what works for you I will compost mine as I have done for years dig it in my garden and grow veg

Agricultural land doing nowt  for years.   If it hasn't been cropped or grazed it will be covered in seedling trees etc by now.!

 

There is IMO a difference between spreading dilute sewage on land where the owner knows its there and so probably do the local population and surreptitiously dumped sewage that nobody knows is there.

 

You I feel are the exception with regard to disposal from "composting" toilets and what you out on your garden is entirely up to you and no risk to anybody else.

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1 minute ago, Jerra said:

Agricultural land doing nowt  for years.   If it hasn't been cropped or grazed it will be covered in seedling trees etc by now.!

 

There is IMO a difference between spreading dilute sewage on land where the owner knows its there and so probably do the local population and surreptitiously dumped sewage that nobody knows is there.

 

You I feel are the exception with regard to disposal from "composting" toilets and what you out on your garden is entirely up to you and no risk to anybody else.

It does have a lot of trees on it being honest, also if you ever attend one of my BBQs and eat the tatties and salad you will know what helped them grow that well........................?

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On 09/11/2018 at 18:05, rusty69 said:

Store it in the b̶o̶t̶t̶y̶ butty!

FYI London Boat Girl is not enamoured, she's sold the composting loo

Youtube:  Why I Got Rid of My Composting Toilet

some folks might find this yukky! GROSS!!!! There are some BAD words and some more GROSSNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by LadyG
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32 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I dont know who owns it all the time I have been boating acres and acres of land next to canals just stands there doing nowt! Anthrax well its more likely cows would be the carrier than us and that gets spread on fields as well. When we had the cottage in Scotland Duffy used to pump out our septic tank and mix it with slurry to spray on the fields no doubt he does the same for many other people in the area, yet there is no widespread decease from this is their? As I have said all along you do what works for you I will compost mine as I have done for years dig it in my garden and grow veg

Well I really think you should not go around dumping your faeces on other people's land  without permission, its a ridiculous idea. 

With respect to septic tanks, they are usually aerobically digesting the sewage, the spreading of the residue on land is documented and controlled these days. A lot of sewage farm slurries will be spread on fields then ploughed in,  and consents are required...... The regulations are quite clear.

Of course one person is likely to "get away with it", but that is not going to work if 1000 people decide to use this method.

 

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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

With respect to septic tanks, they are usually aerobically digesting the sewage, the spreading of the residue on land is documented and controlled these days.

Not only is it controlled - it is now illegal.

It now costs us £300 to have our septic tank emptied as it can no longer be put on the land - the Tanker now has to go 20+ miles to an 'approved' sewage works (not the local one) where they have to pay £x per 1000 litres, all (travel time, fuel, fees) has to be added onto the cost of emptying the tank.

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25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not only is it controlled - it is now illegal.

It now costs us £300 to have our septic tank emptied as it can no longer be put on the land - the Tanker now has to go 20+ miles to an 'approved' sewage works (not the local one) where they have to pay £x per 1000 litres, all (travel time, fuel, fees) has to be added onto the cost of emptying the tank.

I assume there has to be a reason for this other than the authorities being awkward so it makes the dumping of composting toilet material surreptitiously even less desirable.

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13 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I assume there has to be a reason for this other than the authorities being awkward so it makes the dumping of composting toilet material surreptitiously even less desirable.

Yes, its called Control of Pollution

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2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

If that is the only reason why haven't they banned "Muck"/slurry spreading?  Alan states spreading sewage is illegal surely not a lot different to slurry spreading.

I don't think it's illegal just tightly controlled 

 

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/compliance/nvzs/what-farmers-need-to-do-to-use-sewage-sludge-safely

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9 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I assume there has to be a reason for this other than the authorities being awkward so it makes the dumping of composting toilet material surreptitiously even less desirable.

I only know what "Cesspool Sid" told me., that new laws mean that the sewage has to be treated to international standards before it can be 'disposed of'. Only major city sewage works have been licensed to receive 'septic tank' loads as local 'village' sewage works cannot cope with the volume in one go, and still maintain standards.

 

Cesspool Sid is a real company :

 

https://www.cesspoolsid.co.uk/about-us/

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Yes - sewage sludge can be used.

Sewage sludge is the remainder of the sewage after it has been de-watered and treated to remove pathogens.

From the article you quote :

 

The UK water industry generates well over 1m tonnes of sewage sludge each year, the bulk of which is treated and recycled on to land as a fertiliser and to improve soil structure.

Although it contains useful organic matter it can also be a source of disease or toxic amounts of micronutrients if used incorrectly.

Farmers who accept sludge – also known as biosolids – on to their farms are required to show they have taken steps to follow the Sludge (Use in Agriculture) Regulations 1989 Great Britain and Northern Ireland 1990.

Failure to comply can result in an unlimited fine on conviction. Additional penalties may be imposed if cross-compliance rules are also found to have been breached, for example if nitrate vulnerable zone rules are broken.

 

 

Raw sewage can no longer be spread.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I only know what "Cesspool Sid" told me., that new laws mean that the sewage has to be treated to international standards before it can be 'disposed of'. Only major city sewage works have been licensed to receive 'septic tank' loads as local 'village' sewage works cannot cope with the volume in one go, and still maintain standards.

 

Cesspool Sid is a real company :

 

https://www.cesspoolsid.co.uk/about-us/

 

 

 

... which makes me wonder how many "septic tanks" are really cess pits :)

 

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes - sewage sludge can be used.

Sewage sludge is the remainder of the sewage after it has been de-watered and treated to remove pathogens.

From the article you quote :

 

The UK water industry generates well over 1m tonnes of sewage sludge each year, the bulk of which is treated and recycled on to land as a fertiliser and to improve soil structure.

Although it contains useful organic matter it can also be a source of disease or toxic amounts of micronutrients if used incorrectly.

Farmers who accept sludge – also known as biosolids – on to their farms are required to show they have taken steps to follow the Sludge (Use in Agriculture) Regulations 1989 Great Britain and Northern Ireland 1990.

Failure to comply can result in an unlimited fine on conviction. Additional penalties may be imposed if cross-compliance rules are also found to have been breached, for example if nitrate vulnerable zone rules are broken.

 

 

Raw sewage can no longer be spread.

I admit to missing subtle difference between raw and untreated in the comments,  my bad, yes as far as I know raw sewage spreading is illegal.

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32 minutes ago, Jerra said:

If that is the only reason why haven't they banned "Muck"/slurry spreading?  Alan states spreading sewage is illegal surely not a lot different to slurry spreading.

Nowadays farmers have to account for slurry spreading. To prevent the watercourses getting contaminated by run off they need six months slurry storage. Penalties for the pollution of water-courses are really severe. It's kinda difficult to summarise the subject in a few sentences, as you must realise :) 

Edited by LadyG
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2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Nowadays farmers have to account for slurry spreading. To prevent the watercourses getting contaminated by run off they need six months slurry storage. Penalties for the pollution of watecourses are really severe.

Having a friend who until he retired went round sampling the water courses and going to court as an expert witness I am well aware of the penalties.

 

The point I was making is if spreading raw sewage is illegal is not a little strange that farmers can spread raw slurry.

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7 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Having a friend who until he retired went round sampling the water courses and going to court as an expert witness I am well aware of the penalties.

 

The point I was making is if spreading raw sewage is illegal is not a little strange that farmers can spread raw slurry.

I know exctly what you meant.

Briefly, human waste is more likely to be contaminated with human pathogens and heavy metals than cow slurry.

 Cows are vegetarian and the  E Coli  in their intestines is less likely to be of the human type, less likely to spread human disease.

Edited by LadyG
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