Morco Issue - Help Please

[alan_fincher]

Morco D61E - possibly about 2 years old.

 

Working fine yesterday when I turned it off for overnight.

 

Pilot will not light today - no sign of any gas at all at the pilot, with the control pushed in as it should be.

Even with the case off and flame from gas lighter pointed at the relevant bits no action at all.

 

It seems unlikely that a pilot that was working fine last night has suddenly got fully blocked.

 

So I suspect that something has failed, meaning no gas is being supplied to it.

 

Ideas please - it is our only hot water source other than boiling a kettle.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

19 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Ideas please

Gas cylinder empty ?

 

 

[Boater Sam]

Daft really but empty bottle?

Jet blocked, if the bottle is low sometimes the smelly has dust in it.

Regulator stuck closed?

Kinked hose?

Edited August 18, 2018 by Boater Sam

[alan_fincher]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Gas cylinder empty ?

 

 

No!

[alan_fincher]

17 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Thanks for suggestions - answers put into your ideas.......

 

Daft really but empty bottle?

 

No, recently changed.  Hob and gas fridge all running fine, and these are further along the pipework from the cylinder than the Morco.
I have broken the short spur that connects the Morco to the main pipe, and there is gas there, with no sign of crud.
 

Jet blocked, if the bottle is low sometimes the smelly has dust in it.

It's possible, but I can't see that happening whilst it is not in use.  It was alight last night when I turned it off, but on trying to relight it will not.

 

Regulator stuck closed?

Kinked hose?

Assuming you mean at the bottle, then no, as I say gas supply fine.

Problem is now guaranteed 100% within the Morco itself.

Can the "gas analyser thingy" fail and permanently disable supply of gas to the pilot?

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by alan_fincher

[MtB]

Does the gas cooker still work?

 

if yes then blocked pilot jet is most likely. Not a lot else it can be. Try loosening the inlet gas pressure test point to confirm you have a gas supply

[b0atman]

does it not need water pressure to allow gas through ?

 

[rusty69]

Is there some gas safety cut off valve related to the flue? 

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Does the gas cooker still work?

 

if yes then blocked pilot jet is most likely. Not a lot else it can be. Try loosening the inlet gas pressure test point to confirm you have a gas supply

 

See above - I have actually had the immediate feed pipe disconnected and there is gas there.

 

1 hour ago, b0atman said:

does it not need water pressure to allow gas through ?

 

 

Don't think so, but there is water pressure.

 

52 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Is there some gas safety cut off valve related to the flue? 

 

Yes, I queried this above, and wonder if it failing could cause the symptom.

 

I don't know if it is something that should be open circuit if there is no fault detected, designed to conduct if there is. or vice versa.

 

Anybody know, please?

[Ex Brummie]

Undo the gas pipe connection into the pilot, then put the control into pilot mode and push in. If gas flows, then the pilot jet is blocked. If no gas, but you have gas into the appliance, then there is a problem with the gas valve.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Yes, I queried this above, and wonder if it failing could cause the symptom.

 

 

 

The flue spillage device if tripped or faulty will not prevent gas from discharging from the pilot jet. It interrrupts the thermocouple circuit so the flame will light but goes out when you release the knob. 

 

You have a blocked pilot jet. There it no almost no doubt. Take it to bits and clean it! 

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Don't think so, but there is water pressure.

 

Water pressure opens the gas valve on these heaters. Perhaps the valve has failed?

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The flue spillage device if tripped or faulty will not prevent gas from discharging from the pilot jet. It interrrupts the thermocouple circuit so the flame will light but goes out when you release the knob. 

 

You have a blocked pilot jet. There it no almost no doubt. Take it to bits and clean it! 

Ok, well Mike will know more than me about the likely causes.

[cheshire~rose]

Our Morco (which was only 3 months old) developed a scarily orange flame visible through the panel on the front.

 

It turned out a spider had decided one of the jets was a perfect place to make a web. It was a tiny, intricate web and how it was not blown away by the force of the gas jet or burned by the flames in there I have no idea. The fact it was working fine one day and not looking so healthy the next was due to a spider and we all know how quickly they can build a web!

We never did find the body of the spider in there so perhaps he is waiting behind a panel to build another annoyingly placed web!

Now easy to see in the photo and the web was so delicate that I had to get the photo fast before the draft blew it away so why didn't the force of the gas!

 

[alan_fincher]

13 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

You have a blocked pilot jet. There it no almost no doubt. Take it to bits and clean it! 

So what is permissible to do please?

 

Can I just poke something right through it, or is it of the type sometimes described where you  must not?

Mine looks much like this......

 

[cheshire~rose]

I would try blowing compressed air through rather than poking it with anything but Mike will have more knowledge about it than me.

 

 

 

 

[MoominPapa]

50 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

So what is permissible to do please?

 

Can I just poke something right through it, or is it of the type sometimes described where you  must not?

Mine looks much like this......

 

If you have a bike pump handy (every boat should have one for re-inflating accumulators) then you'll find that  the jet will screw into it tolerably well. The thread is the right diameter but wrong pitch, but you'll get a couple of turns before it locks, which is enough. Some vigorous pumping will then back-flush the jet and all will be well. Works for me.

 

MP.

 

ETA. I'm talking about the bit with the hex flats, which contains the jet, and not the bit with the spout, in case it's not clear.

Edited August 19, 2018 by MoominPapa

[MtB]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

So what is permissible to do please?

 

Can I just poke something right through it, or is it of the type sometimes described where you  must not?

Mine looks much like this......

 

 

Well now you've taken it to bits, hold the jet up to the light and seef you can see daylight through the hole. It will be about .015" in diameter. 

 

If you can't, poke it out with a guitar high E string. It's obviously brass so you wont do any harm unless you start hitting it or forcing things though. 

 

If you CAN see daylight through it, then this suggests no gas supply. Push the knob into the lighting position and see if neat gas gobs out (technical term) of the open ended pipe.  It should.

 

Also, blow through the other bit. It should contain no restrictions or obstructions and air should flow freely through.

[alan_fincher]

It isn't in bits at the moment, but it probably will be later in the day.

EDITED TO ADD:

Bike pump almost certainly on the boat we are not on!

Edited August 19, 2018 by alan_fincher

[Boater Sam]

Use a bristle off a stiff brush to poke it, won't damage the jet.

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Well now you've taken it to bits, hold the jet up to the light and seef you can see daylight through the hole. It will be about .015" in diameter. 

 

If you can't, poke it out with a guitar high E string. It's obviously brass so you wont do any harm unless you start hitting it or forcing things though. 

 

If you CAN see daylight through it, then this suggests no gas supply. Push the knob into the lighting position and see if neat gas gobs out (technical term) of the open ended pipe.  It should.

 

Also, blow through the other bit. It should contain no restrictions or obstructions and air should flow freely through.

Could you use a pink teepee tooth pick thing... it says it’s 0.4mm, which is a tiny bit more than 0.015in?

[Tacet]

On 18/08/2018 at 14:13, alan_fincher said:

Morco D61E - possibly about 2 years old.

 

Working fine yesterday when I turned it off for overnight.

 

Pilot will not light today - no sign of any gas at all at the pilot, with the control pushed in as it should be.

Even with the case off and flame from gas lighter pointed at the relevant bits no action at all.

 

It seems unlikely that a pilot that was working fine last night has suddenly got fully blocked.

 

So I suspect that something has failed, meaning no gas is being supplied to it.

 

Ideas please - it is our only hot water source other than boiling a kettle.

An Alan Fincher post in the style of Dave Mayall.  Could this be the start of a new game?

Edited August 19, 2018 by Tacet

[NB Alnwick]

We had the same problem last year and it turned out to be a faulty thermocouple/flame-cut-off device - once this was replaced it was better than new. I am not saying that Alan has the same problem but it may be an avenue worth exploring . . .

 

Edited to add: About £40 here

Edited August 24, 2018 by NB Alnwick

[bizzard]

The pilot flame needs to work to heat the thermo couple before it works, by holding the knob in until the thermo couple is heated. Alans pilot won't light at all apparently.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, NB Alnwick said:

We had the same problem last year and it turned out to be a faulty thermocouple/flame-cut-off device - once this was replaced it was better than new. I am not saying that Alan has the same problem but it may be an avenue worth exploring . . .

 

Edited to add: About £40 here

 

Yes as Bizz says, it can't possibly have been the same problem if replacing the thermocouple fixed it. A faulty thermocouple makes the flame go out after lighting. Alan can't get his to light in the first place. 

[alan_fincher]

I'm sorry - I should have given an update on this - I have even been asked about it at Alvecote.

 

It suddenly started working.  I'm not sure why - we didn't do any obvious fix on it.

I think that blocked jet is most likely, though how it occurred between turning it off and trying to turn it on again is far from obvious - as is how it cleared itself, if that is indeed what happened.
 

It's still currently working again.