Consultation opens on proposal for BSS Requirements for CO alarms on boats

[nicknorman]

3 hours ago, dmr said:

Just done a very inconclusive experiment.

 

Grill on, CO meter on work surface near grill, Got reading of 10ppm, then 13 (new meter appears to start at 10ppm, next reading is 13).

No toast, but there are a lot of bread crumbs in grill pan.

Removed grill pan, reading returns to 0ppm after delay of a minute or two.

Replaced grill pan (with breadcrumbs), reading remained at 0. ???????

 

.................Dave

I think this is to be expected. As MtB days, CO is emitted when a flame plays on cold steel/aluminium or whatever. So when you first light the grill, you have a flame playing on cold steel (the radiant bit) but after not very long, that metal heats up to red hot or nearly so, hence no CO. In the case of a saucepan, that remains much cooler for much longer so more CO.

[dmr]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

I think this is to be expected. As MtB days, CO is emitted when a flame plays on cold steel/aluminium or whatever. So when you first light the grill, you have a flame playing on cold steel (the radiant bit) but after not very long, that metal heats up to red hot or nearly so, hence no CO. In the case of a saucepan, that remains much cooler for much longer so more CO.

That also occurred to me  as when I put the grill pan back in, the grill was noticeable much hotter, but in the past I think I remember the CO reading remaining for quite a long time. I think I need to refine and repeat this experiment, or at least add it to the experiment "todo" list.

 

.............Dave

[George and Dragon]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Either that or an extremely intelligent one, that knows you are testing it and is messing about with you. 

Made by Volkswagen?

 

ETA: Cuthound got there first

Edited August 20, 2018 by George and Dragon
read the rest of the thread

[Alan de Enfield]

7 hours ago, WotEver said:

Same with someone on here (Alan de E?) who had to fit an RCD because it was ‘required’. 

 

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The correct course of action in circumstances like this where the examiner is making up his own regulations is to sack him and start again with a more professional examiner. 

He wanted paying up-front, so, he was paid before arrival.

After the examination he said I can give you a 'fail' or you can fit an RCD and I'll call in tomorrow on my way past and issue you a 'pass'.

Arguing it was not a requirement simply ended in - you have paid me so I don't really care, it your choice, fit an RCD, or pay another examiner to do it and (hopefully) get a pass.

 

The details were passed to Rob at BSS, but nothing was ever heard as 'complaints are dealt with internally and any additional training will be provided to ensure all examiners work to the correct guidelines / rules.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

He wanted paying up-front

Ha!  Good reason for not doing so in the future I guess. 

[BruceinSanity]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

He wanted paying up-front, so, he was paid before arrival.

Is this common? I wouldn’t dream of paying anyone in advance for a BSS or indeed any other work on the boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

Is this common? I wouldn’t dream of paying anyone in advance for a BSS or indeed any other work on the boat.

I don't know, I havn't paid for a BSS for several years.

I tend to buy a new boat every 18 months / 2 years and generally have a couple in use at the same time - I always make sure that the purchase contract include a new full BSSC

[nicknorman]

13 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

Is this common? I wouldn’t dream of paying anyone in advance for a BSS or indeed any other work on the boat.

Certainly we weren’t asked to pay up front. I suppose it could work both ways though - a competent BSS bod goes out to a boat and finds a catalogue of disasters, refuses to pass boat. Boater then refuses to pay. Not very fair on the examiner.

[Momac]

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 ARE there any CO monitors which the manufacturers state are suitable for use in boats?

Those that comply with bs en 50291-2  which appears to be currently under review .

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

He wanted paying up-front

 

Did this not ring any warning bells? It would have with me and I'd have sought another examiner.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, MartynG said:

bs en 50291-2 

But not all manufacturers to this spec say their product is suitable for boats.

It pays to read the /small print' before parting with your cash

[George and Dragon]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But not all manufacturers to this spec say their product is suitable for boats.

It pays to read the /small print' before parting with your cash

 I found this on fleabay:

 

CE marked and Kitemarked to BS EN 50291-1:2010+A1:2012 (domestic use) & BS EN 50291-2:2010 (camping/caravans/boats) 

Test/reset button feature 

Activates when CO level reaches 50ppm 

Enables users to carry out a practical sensor test 

85dB audible alarm as well as LED status indicator 

7 year lifespan and manufacturer's warranty 

Automatic self diagnostic function - checks its own sensor and battery 

Can be wall mounted or left free standing 

Certified for home, camping, caravan, motor home and boat use 

 

 I wonder how it self-tests

[1st ade]

5 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

It's not made by Volkwagen is it? ?

Beat me to it (Except its VolksWagen - "The Peoples Car")

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But not all manufacturers to this spec say their product is suitable for boats.

It pays to read the /small print' before parting with your cash

According to the BSI withing the few words that describe  BS EN 50291-2 (with emphasis on the -2) the standard applies to  use  in recreational vehicles including recreational craft. Are there sub categories within that standard ?

https://shop.bsigroup.com/SearchResults/?q=bs en 50291-2

 

 

[BruceinSanity]

45 minutes ago, MartynG said:

According to the BSI withing the few words that describe  BS EN 50291-2 (with emphasis on the -2) the standard applies to  use  in recreational vehicles including recreational craft. Are there sub categories within that standard ?

https://shop.bsigroup.com/SearchResults/?q=bs en 50291-2

 

 

There’s a doc showing all the currently approved alarms on the BSS website here.

[Alan de Enfield]

46 minutes ago, MartynG said:

According to the BSI withing the few words that describe  BS EN 50291-2 (with emphasis on the -2) the standard applies to  use  in recreational vehicles including recreational craft. Are there sub categories within that standard ?

https://shop.bsigroup.com/SearchResults/?q=bs en 50291-2

 

 

Not having access to the Standard I don't know.

But I have seen part 2 O2 alarms that stated 'not suitable for use in boats'.

[nicknorman]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Not having access to the Standard I don't know.

But I have seen part 2 O2 alarms that stated 'not suitable for use in boats'.

You do have access to the Standard, you just don’t realise it!

[Momac]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Not having access to the Standard I don't know.

But I have seen part 2 O2 alarms that stated 'not suitable for use in boats'.

You are quite correct

The standard requires the maker to declare the type of vehicle for which the co monitor may be used and  which types of vehicle it is unsuitable (including boats).

Not sure if the following link will work

https://bsol.bsigroup.com/PdfViewer/Viewer?pid=000000000030183106

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

You are quite correct

The standard requires the maker to declare the type of vehicle for which the co monitor may be used and  which types of vehicle it is unsuitable (including boats).

Not sure if the following link will work

https://bsol.bsigroup.com/PdfViewer/Viewer?pid=000000000030183106

 

 

Thank you - I knew I had seen it.

Linky requires a log in and pass word.

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Thank you - I knew I had seen it.

Linky requires a log in and pass word.

Go in via Manchester library. That will provide the log in and password.

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/162241/british_standards_online/category/1216/business_and_careers

Edited August 20, 2018 by nicknorman

[George and Dragon]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But I have seen part 2 O2 alarms that stated 'not suitable for use in boats'.

I assume this is a typo. Unless you know something that Rob@BSS has up his sleeve 

[LadyG]

8 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Go in via Manchester library. That will provide the log in and password.

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/162241/british_standards_online/category/1216/business_and_careers

Sometimes I want to keep a post for future access, in this instance I can't bookmark this link Any ideas?

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, George and Dragon said:

I assume this is a typo. Unless you know something that Rob@BSS has up his sleeve 

Wooops !

 

Thank you and 'yes' (you guess to which one the answer is yes)

 

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Sometimes I want to keep a post for future access, in this instance I can't bookmark this link Any ideas?

Yes.

 

Open the link

Click "save to favourites"

[Chewbacka]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

Sometimes I want to keep a post for future access, in this instance I can't bookmark this link Any ideas?

Try this link.    https://secure.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/162241/british_standards_online

 

when you find the standard you want don’t click on the standard itself, but click on the little magnifying glass over a pdf on the rhs.  You can only view and not print on this site.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Chewbacka