Hillmorton

[dogless]

I have followed this thread with some interest.

Volunteers assist boaters through locks horror

Life can be so vexing.

I dread to think what these volunteers think of us.

Rog

 

 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, dogless said:

I have followed this thread with some interest.

Volunteers assist boaters through locks horror

Life can be so vexing.

I dread to think what these volunteers think of us.

Rog

 

 

 

'Tis extremely presumptuous of them to interfere with other people's boating uninvited, in my personal opinion.

 

Working the locks is one of the reasons I like boating. Some random pitching up and trying to do it instead of me is not welcome whether or not they are sanctioned to do this by CRT. They are not 'helping', they are interfering. 

 

If they turned up on a cold, wet and windy winter's afternoon to help me up say The Delft I would be pleased, but they never do. They are only ever there on the lovely warm sunny days in summer. 

 

Grump grump. 

[alan_fincher]

14 minutes ago, dogless said:

I have followed this thread with some interest.

Volunteers assist boaters through locks horror

Life can be so vexing.

I dread to think what these volunteers think of us.

Rog

If you had ever been in the situation where one was very nearly instrumental in sinking your boat with you dog and son on board you might perhaps be more inclined to take concerns about where they get it badly wrong more seriously.

I have never in many years of boating been made more terrified than I was by an incident with a volunteer at Hillmorton, and but for some very quick thinking by my very agile son, the whole thing could have ended very very badly indeed.

There are very clear guidelines laid down by CRT about exactly what the role of these people are, and how they should be operating.  CRT committed to us to re-iterate this and raise its profile in training - also to retrain people as required.  As I said earlier, our own experience shows that even the best ones we encounter still regularly fail to ask the boater whether they want them to be involved or not.  That is wrong, by CRT's own admission - they should not be "assisting" you without having a conversation first.  End of.

[reveriecanaltradingco]

Nice to see you yesterday Roland, cant say im looking forward to going down hillmorton tomorrow. Sounds like its going to be "fun".

[nicknorman]

Had a chat with a very sensible and helpful volockie at Fradley the other day. Apparently they now spend quite a bit of time doing other stuff such as painting, greasing etc. So they are not just volunteering to help boaters through locks. He was also a (hire) boater himself. He had a good “manner” and said that he had only ever had one person be unpleasant to him (something about turning a lock when the boater (who was not yet in the previous lock) thought he shouldn’t have. I’m sure there is quite a skill required to be a volockie and not fall foul of other people’s tempers.

 

We’ve only once had a bit of an issue with a volockie, at Hatton. Jeff was helping a boat down whilst I waited with the boat to go up the lock. After top gates were closed and boater happy, Jeff opened bottom paddle. Then crossed to open other paddle at which point volockie rudely shouted at Jeff (with a lot of gongoozlers present) to shut it as this was highly dangerous and when there was only one boat in the lock, only one paddle must be opened. I later pointed out to him that it didn’t matter when going down, it was only an issue when going up. He wasn’t a boater and I don’t think he really understood the point. I later complained to the supervisor who agreed that volockies shouldn’t be shouting criticisms at boaters. Not the end of the world of course, but Jeff doesn’t like to be embarrassed in front of strangers especially when he’d done nothing wrong and more importantly boater going down was quite happy to have both paddles opened (who wouldn’t be!).

[canalboat]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

If you had ever been in the situation where one was very nearly instrumental in sinking your boat with you dog and son on board you might perhaps be more inclined to take concerns about where they get it badly wrong more seriously.

I have never in many years of boating been made more terrified than I was by an incident with a volunteer at Hillmorton, and but for some very quick thinking by my very agile son, the whole thing could have ended very very badly indeed.

End of.

End of???   Oh how we wish it was - but you will keep repeating this fairy tale, over and over and over...……………………...

[john6767]

The ones at Hatton seem to be very prescriptive about which panels you should use.  We had this at the lock by the welcome centre, which the volunteers don’t seem to move from anyway.   They seen to forget that there are 21 locks on the flight and 4 of them helping on one is really no help at all.  In my view they stay there as that is where the most visitors are and they like to show off by throwing their weight about telling boaters how to operate the lock. Given coming up you have done 17 of them by this point, if were not experience at the bottom you would be by then.

 

Hatton and Hillmorton seen to be the worst in this respect, although at Hillmorton for me it has been mainly about being ignored.  Last time I came up I was on my own, and I did get some welcome and sensible help from the woman on the bottom lock.  The guy on the middle lock was no help at all, I had to tie the boat up and walk back to the lock to shut the top gate whick he was stood next to it talking to the boat in the parallel lock.

 

I had welcome help on the top 2 locks at Atherstone, having come up on my own in the very hot weather, I was glad to stay on the boat for the last  2 locks.  They were pleasant and I had no problem with how they operated the lock.  What did tickle me though was one of them asked me where I was heading that day, and I said Hawkesbury, and he said oh that’s the place with the “funny” lock people have mentioned that before.  I was rather taken back that someone volunteering at Atherstone had never been there, it is only 15 mins in a car.

 I guess it does reinforce that you can’t expect them to have any knowledge or interest in the canals as such, and that the only things they know is what they have been thought on their course, which possibly does explain the rather prescriptive approach of some of them.  To me all the more reason that the operating procedure’s number one rule should be that the boater is in charge.

 

[Tony Brooks]

Further to my post 28 re Foxton.

 

After thinking about it I sent a message to CaRT this morning giving my views and stating that if the same thing happened today going up) I would hold CaRT responsible for any injuries I sustained. I doubt they had time to get an message to the locks. However the Vollys today were totally different. They helped me into the first lock, opened or closed an occasional tow path side gate and prepared the lock after the passing place so we could go straight through. Once they assured them selves that I was competent they just left me alone. A totally different experience.

 

No nonsense about leaving an empty lock between us and the boat in front, just steady progress ensuring the gates between us and the boat in front were closed and the boat out of the lock before filling the chamber as "normal".

 

I feel CaRT need t get all the Vollys singing from the same sheet and carry out some low key assessment of aptitude, attitude, and competence, otherwise I can see most experienced boaters telling the Vollys to stay away and keep their noises out of lock operation.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Had a chat with a very sensible and helpful volockie at Fradley the other day. Apparently they now spend quite a bit of time doing other stuff such as painting, greasing etc. So they are not just volunteering to help boaters through locks. He was also a (hire) boater himself. He had a good “manner” and said that he had only ever had one person be unpleasant to him (something about turning a lock when the boater (who was not yet in the previous lock) thought he shouldn’t have. I’m sure there is quite a skill required to be a volockie and not fall foul of other people’s tempers.

 

We’ve only once had a bit of an issue with a volockie, at Hatton. Jeff was helping a boat down whilst I waited with the boat to go up the lock. After top gates were closed and boater happy, Jeff opened bottom paddle. Then crossed to open other paddle at which point volockie rudely shouted at Jeff (with a lot of gongoozlers present) to shut it as this was highly dangerous and when there was only one boat in the lock, only one paddle must be opened. I later pointed out to him that it didn’t matter when going down, it was only an issue when going up. He wasn’t a boater and I don’t think he really understood the point. I later complained to the supervisor who agreed that volockies shouldn’t be shouting criticisms at boaters. Not the end of the world of course, but Jeff doesn’t like to be embarrassed in front of strangers especially when he’d done nothing wrong and more importantly boater going down was quite happy to have both paddles opened (who wouldn’t be!).

On the hole the Fradley ones do a good job especially when Middle and Junction communicate with what traffic is going down the Coventry, it was just there that I disagreed with one of them

[roland elsdon]

Dont get me wrong i have no problem with voluntering as such. 

However there needs to be consistent practice.

1) Ask

2) watch

3) listen

4) dont assume

5) dont take charge

 

Dont become an expert , all boats are different and respond differently, our boat with 15 foot cut out is remarkably different to the full length version, and after 7 years i get it wrong after 30 years with full length boats, as it moves around in locks differently.

 

[rgreg]

Surely if individuals don't want the volunteers' help it's just a simple matter of politely saying: "thank you, but I'd rather do it myself". There's no need to wait to be asked. 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Surely if individuals don't want the volunteers' help it's just a simple matter of politely saying: "thank you, but I'd rather do it myself". There's no need to wait to be asked. 

 

Bit difficult when your single handing and at the helm

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Bit difficult when your single handing and at the helm

You could get a volunteer to advise the volunteers that you don't require help. They could stand at the front. 

 

I'm not volunteering btw

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by rusty69

[rgreg]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Bit difficult when your single handing and at the helm

I don't think so. By the time they've closed the gates you can be up the ladder and off the boat. 

[MtB]

Just now, rgreg said:

I don't think so. By the time they've closed the gates you can be up the ladder and off the boat. 

 

By the time they've opened the gates, they're already 'helping' you!

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, rgreg said:

I don't think so. By the time they've closed the gates you can be up the ladder and off the boat. 

Should they open the gate again if he doesn't require help? 

[rgreg]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

By the time they've opened the gates, they're already 'helping' you!

I didn't think the issue was the way they opened the gates! You could always just tie up on the landing if you want to open them yourself.

[MtB]

Vollies 'helping' is not that big a deal to me as it might appear on here, but it's the general and overall presumption that I 'need help' to squirt me through the lock that I dislike. I LIKE working the locks and they take away that pleasure from me and expect to be thanked for it. Having to tell them to not to help also spoils the unhurried and unhassled leisurely operation of a lock and introduces a degree of stress.

[rgreg]

18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Vollies 'helping' is not that big a deal to me as it might appear on here, but it's the general and overall presumption that I 'need help' to squirt me through the lock that I dislike. I LIKE working the locks and they take away that pleasure from me and expect to be thanked for it. Having to tell them to not to help also spoils the unhurried and unhassled leisurely operation of a lock and introduces a degree of stress.

Like you I enjoy working locks, especially single-handed, and the vast majority are unmanned. I also quite enjoy a bit of interaction with the volunteers. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by rgreg
Punctuation

[Jerra]

25 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Vollies 'helping' is not that big a deal to me as it might appear on here, but it's the general and overall presumption that I 'need help' to squirt me through the lock that I dislike. I LIKE working the locks and they take away that pleasure from me and expect to be thanked for it. Having to tell them to not to help also spoils the unhurried and unhassled leisurely operation of a lock and introduces a degree of stress.

^^^^^^^ This.

[matty40s]

I havn't done a lock on my own boat since May(quite a few nice lock free hours around here).

 I have done quite a few locks on other boats this year, and I am really trying to avoid locks with Vollockies after the last 5 years and new "rules" becoming apparent more and more.

I object to be told how to boat, or when I should raise a paddle, or whether I should stay on my boat while a locky raises 1 paddle a few notches every few minutes,, object to be told to move a 70 footer backwards going uphill in a lock, I object to having had to rescue a hire boat going uphill at Foxton with the Head volunteer lockie sending water down and the boat deck being under an waterfall, I object to seeing volunteer lockies deciding to just do the boats that suit them.

[LadyG]

7 hours ago, matty40s said:

I havn't done a lock on my own boat since May(quite a few nice lock free hours around here).

 I have done quite a few locks on other boats this year, and I am really trying to avoid locks with Vollockies after the last 5 years and new "rules" becoming apparent more and more.

I object to be told how to boat, or when I should raise a paddle, or whether I should stay on my boat while a locky raises 1 paddle a few notches every few minutes,, object to be told to move a 70 footer backwards going uphill in a lock, I object to having had to rescue a hire boat going uphill at Foxton with the Head volunteer lockie sending water down and the boat deck being under an waterfall, I object to seeing volunteer lockies deciding to just do the boats that suit them.

Why don't you just ask them to leave you to locking your own boat? Just say you prefer to work locks on your own.

Edited August 17, 2018 by LadyG

[hughc]

Going down through Stenson on the T&M last year we were told by a volunteer that he wouldn't  raise both bottom paddles because there was an agreement with the live aboards in the layby below the lock. They had, he alleged,  complained of turbulence if both paddles were raised. Does any one know if this is true and, if so,why? The same man was encouraging young children from families at the cafe to operate gates. It was noticeable that other volunteers present were keeping well out his way as he performed for the audience. I did notice someweeks ago  that one bottom paddle here was out of order and wrapped round with CART's ' in your face' tape. Regards, HughC.

[X Alan W]

5 minutes ago, hughc said:

Going down through Stenson on the T&M last year we were told by a volunteer that he wouldn't  raise both bottom paddles because there was an agreement with the live aboards in the layby below the lock. They had, he alleged,  complained of turbulence if both paddles were raised. Does any one know if this is true and, if so,why? The same man was encouraging young children from families at the cafe to operate gates. It was noticeable that other volunteers present were keeping well out his way as he performed for the audience. I did notice someweeks ago  that one bottom paddle here was out of order and wrapped round with CART's ' in your face' tape. Regards, HughC.

If the paddle wasn't taped up it would be interesting to see a  C&Rt maintenance boat crewed by long serving staff if there's any left pass downhill & how much paddle is opened I think if I was restricted on paddle opening for the stated reason my reply would be if they want to moor there they should learn to tie up their boat properly & both bottom paddles would be raised probably an agreement twixt "jobsworth & the moorer, must take an age with only one operating paddle

[john6767]

One io the bottom paddles was broken for a long time, hence it was taking 20 mins or more to empty the lock.  I believe CRT were expecting to need a crane to fix it which meant closing the road, hence the delay.  However when they had a diver in the lock to clear an obstruction a month or so ago they were also able to fix the paddle, so I believe both are working now.  The volenteers on this lock are unfortunately another example of where you would be much better off without them, and as has been said they like to throw their weight about in showing off to the people at the cafe.  It is one to go through early or late in the day when they are not there, it is a very deep lock and I don't like people I don't trust messing with it.