Hillmorton

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Yes, I also rarely get caught up by following boats on lock flights when single-handing. I usually enjoy a little bit of a challenge to stay ahead. 

 

Yes. You get into your rhythm, are pulling away satisfyingly, in your 'zone' and working well, then suddenly you see a pesky volly coming down the towpath waving at you telling you to STOP, there is a boat five locks up coming the other way and you must wait as he's just set all the locks against you... Grrrr!!!

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman

[GUMPY]

Id just carry on stuff em

[mayalld]

On ‎25‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 09:32, rowland al said:

If it means so much to stop people helping then you can always jump off the boat before entering the lock and ask them not to help. 

 

Alternatively, get your partner to tell them. 

 

BTW, being unable to hear anyone doesn’t stop anybody from shouting instructions, people often respond with a thumbs up anyway. 

 

What I don’t get is this obsession with attacking vlockies Many times we go into locks we get help from other boating crews, and we help them. Should Alan prevent them from helping? They can make mistakes too.

I have no wish to attack volunteers. All that is required is that they stop imposing their assistance on people who may not want it.

 

It isn't OK to assume that because YOU want to play with the locks, all those on boats want you to do so when they are going through the locks. After all, given that volunteers choose to give up their free time to operate locks, they must see it as an enjoyable activity, and it seems not to be such a leap to expect them to understand that boaters might actually enjoy it too.

 

It isn't OK to impose your assistance by default, in such a way as to require the boater to go out of his way to let them know that they aren't to help. If you want to offer your help, go and offer it.

 

It isn't OK to sulk if your assistance is declined when offered. Still less is it OK to do so when you imposed your assistance and had to be told to stop.

 

It isn't OK to get all affronted when somebody suggests that volunteers are actually doing it as much for themselves as for others.

 

It is actually very instructive to consider the motivations that people have for working (whether paid or unpaid). Too often, we assume that the motivations are different. In truth they aren't (and I speak as somebody who has a significant number of current and past unpaid roles under my belt)

 

Clearly paid work comes with the motivator of money, but consider the jobs that you do, or used to do. Can you hand on heart say that you would have switched to ANY other job that paid more if the money was offered. I certainly can't.

 

All roles, paid and unpaid, come with a complex mix of material benefits, and intangible benefits. I have a job that pays well, but it is also doing work that I enjoy, because it engages my brain. That is part of the package.

 

My job is with the NHS. I could get another role in the private sector in a similar field that pays more, but I don't. That is for two fairly contrasting reasons. First I have a stable job that is more likely to endure. Second (and this may be somewhat vain of me), I believe that I am VERY good at what I do, and that my being here brings considerable benefits to society. Big headed or not, I know that if somebody else did my job they wouldn't do it as well as I do, and that the benefit to society would be less.

 

There you go, even a git like me has an altruistic streak, but is there such a thing as true altruism? I suggest not. Altruism, helping others, makes us feel better about ourselves. Even the most apparently selfless act benefits the giver.

 

 

[mayalld]

On ‎25‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 11:37, dogless said:

In all our years of boating, only once has a man refused an offer of assistance.

He was single handed, and refused in a grumpy and rude way.

 

How was the offer of assistance made?

 

All too often, the "offer" seems to consist of putting a windlass on a spindle that defies the boater to decline the help.

 

In all my years of boating, I have studiously declined all such "offers" politely by saying "It's OK, I prefer to do the lock myself". such a refusal often attracts barbed comments from the would be helper. On occasion I have encountered those who choose to ignore my refusal of their help, and even venture to lecture me on what I should be doing. Such individuals are met with a firmer message about their unwanted interference, and in a few rare cases a raised voice to very bluntly TELL them to move away.

 

[nicknorman]

We whizzed up Lapworth flight yesterday. It was pretty quiet. Well very quiet, actually. One went ahead to set all the locks for us on the “main flight” so bottom gates were open, and the other helped close gates and wound the other paddle. Being a competent boater I am quite capable of controlling the boat when both paddles are opened simultaneously and fully, which they were. Well after the first one anyway - on the first one the volockie only opened it 1/2 way and I had to gesticulate to him to wind it fully open. We are proper boaters, not incompetent and slightly petrified ones with constant pans of boiling water on the stove waiting to be spilled.

 

The only thing I’d say in regard to this thread is that when you traverse Hillmorton, you do rather get the impression that the volockies think they are in charge. Can’t say I’ve had that problem anywhere else recently though.

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by nicknorman

[mayalld]

50 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

We whizzed up Lapworth flight yesterday. It was pretty quiet. Well very quiet, actually. One went ahead to set all the locks for us on the “main flight” so bottom gates were open, and the other helped close gates and wound the other paddle. Being a competent boater I am quite capable of controlling the boat when both paddles are opened simultaneously and fully, which they were. Well after the first one anyway - on the first one the volockie only opened it 1/2 way and I had to gesticulate to him to wind it fully open. We are proper boaters, not incompetent and slightly petrified ones with constant pans of boiling water on the stove waiting to be spilled.

 

The only thing I’d say in regard to this thread is that when you traverse Hillmorton, you do rather get the impression that the volockies think they are in charge. Can’t say I’ve had that problem anywhere else recently though.

 

 

Eeeh, it fair does me heart good!

 

After all those tiresome digs about people being in charge and it being unnecessary, you have finally seen the light.

 

There you were, asserting your authority as the person in charge.

 

Well done!

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

We whizzed up Lapworth flight yesterday. It was pretty quiet. Well very quiet, actually. One went ahead to set all the locks for us on the “main flight” so bottom gates were open, and the other helped close gates and wound the other paddle. Being a competent boater I am quite capable of controlling the boat when both paddles are opened simultaneously and fully, which they were. Well after the first one anyway - on the first one the volockie only opened it 1/2 way and I had to gesticulate to him to wind it fully open. We are proper boaters, not incompetent and slightly petrified ones with constant pans of boiling water on the stove waiting to be spilled.

 

The only thing I’d say in regard to this thread is that when you traverse Hillmorton, you do rather get the impression that the volockies think they are in charge. Can’t say I’ve had that problem anywhere else recently though.

As I reported in an earlier post, that was definitely not evident when we came through a few days ago. However, we do have to remember that lock keepers (voluntary or paid) are in part there to regulate the flow of traffic and, in that sense, they are somewhat 'in charge'.

[john6767]

8 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

As I reported in an earlier post, that was definitely not evident when we came through a few days ago. However, we do have to remember that lock keepers (voluntary or paid) are in part there to regulate the flow of traffic and, in that sense, they are somewhat 'in charge'.

Other than at the likes of Watford and Foxton, are they really there to regulate the flow of traffic?  Is there somewhere that is defined?

[nicknorman]

51 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

As I reported in an earlier post, that was definitely not evident when we came through a few days ago. However, we do have to remember that lock keepers (voluntary or paid) are in part there to regulate the flow of traffic and, in that sense, they are somewhat 'in charge'.

No I disagree, they are not there to regulate the flow of traffic. Although at Hillmorton they do think they are. Yesterday going up Lapworth we did meet 1 other boat coming down when we were most of the way up. The boater girlie turned the lock on us in an inappropriate way (we were already filling the lock below, they were still emptying the lock above, lock was originally empty) with the couple of volockies hovering nearby. They agreed with me afterwards that she shouldn’t have done that, but didn’t try to overrule her which is fair enough. From the way they demonstrated a complete inability to drive their boat afterwards, it became obvious they were novices so I let her off with barely a stoney glare.

[dogless]

3 hours ago, mayalld said:

How ns the offer of assistance made?

 

All too often, the "offer" seems to consist of putting a windlass on a spindle that defies the boater to decline the help.

 

In all my years of boating, I have studiously declined all such "offers" politely by saying "It's OK, I prefer to do the lock myself". such a refusal often attracts barbed comments from the would be helper. On occasion I have encountered those who choose to ignore my refusal of their help, and even venture to lecture me on what I should be doing. Such individuals are met with a firmer message about their unwanted interference, and in a few rare cases a raised voice to very bluntly TELL them to move away.

 

My wife and I recognize rudeness, without unrequested assistance, thanks

 

I am also always more Impressed by what others have to say about the quality of someone's work, rather than the boasts of the Individual concerned.

 

Rog

[rowland al]

15 hours ago, mayalld said:

I have no wish to attack volunteers. All that is required is that they stop imposing their assistance on people who may not want it.

 

It isn't OK to assume that because YOU want to play with the locks, all those on boats want you to do so when they are going through the locks. After all, given that volunteers choose to give up their free time to operate locks, they must see it as an enjoyable activity, and it seems not to be such a leap to expect them to understand that boaters might actually enjoy it too.

 

It isn't OK to impose your assistance by default, in such a way as to require the boater to go out of his way to let them know that they aren't to help. If you want to offer your help, go and offer it.

 

It isn't OK to sulk if your assistance is declined when offered. Still less is it OK to do so when you imposed your assistance and had to be told to stop.

 

It isn't OK to get all affronted when somebody suggests that volunteers are actually doing it as much for themselves as for others.

 

It is actually very instructive to consider the motivations that people have for working (whether paid or unpaid). Too often, we assume that the motivations are different. In truth they aren't (and I speak as somebody who has a significant number of current and past unpaid roles under my belt)

 

Clearly paid work comes with the motivator of money, but consider the jobs that you do, or used to do. Can you hand on heart say that you would have switched to ANY other job that paid more if the money was offered. I certainly can't.

 

All roles, paid and unpaid, come with a complex mix of material benefits, and intangible benefits. I have a job that pays well, but it is also doing work that I enjoy, because it engages my brain. That is part of the package.

 

My job is with the NHS. I could get another role in the private sector in a similar field that pays more, but I don't. That is for two fairly contrasting reasons. First I have a stable job that is more likely to endure. Second (and this may be somewhat vain of me), I believe that I am VERY good at what I do, and that my being here brings considerable benefits to society. Big headed or not, I know that if somebody else did my job they wouldn't do it as well as I do, and that the benefit to society would be less.

 

There you go, even a git like me has an altruistic streak, but is there such a thing as true altruism? I suggest not. Altruism, helping others, makes us feel better about ourselves. Even the most apparently selfless act benefits the giver.

 

 

 

I have to say that I’ve never come across this kind of attitude from anyone on the cut in reality. Maybe internet forums are a good thing after all! Quite sad actually. 

[Captain Pegg]

I totally understand not wanting assistance that disrupts an established method when single handing. It invariably results in it taking longer or mistakes being made.

 

For me I either want no direct assistance or for the volockies to work the flight while I remain on the boat. At Hanbury I prefer to find volockies on duty than not but generally I am pretty ambivalent about them because the scheme is so random.

 

Having a volockie station at the thirteenth lock up Tardebigge (exactly the half way lock of 35 between the winding holes at Stoke Prior and Tardebigge New Wharf) seems pointless. It's hard not to give a very literal answer when you get there and are asked "do you need assistance?"

 

However are there really folk here who would prefer not to have someone set ahead or close up behind? Has anyone ever tried asking volockies to do just that? Members of the public are usually very happy to help in this way. I had a gentlemen who must have been about 80 setting ahead for me last week. He was even stepping over the bottom gates. I suspect he wasn't just an average gongoozler.

 

JP

Edited August 27, 2018 by Captain Pegg

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I totally understand not wanting assistance that disrupts an established method when single handing. It invariably results in it taking longer or mistakes being made.

 

For me I either want no direct assistance or for the volockies to work the flight while I remain on the boat. At Hanbury I prefer to find volockies on duty than not but generally I am pretty ambivalent about them because the scheme is so random.

 

Having a volockie station at the thirteenth lock up Tardebigge (exactly the half way lock of 35 between the winding holes at Stoke Prior and Tardebigge New Wharf) seems pointless. It's hard not to give a very literal answer when you get there and are asked "do you need assistance?"

 

However are there really folk here who would prefer not to have someone set ahead or close up behind? Has anyone ever tried asking volockies to do just that? Members of the public are usually very happy to help in this way. I had a gentlemen who must have been about 80 setting ahead for me last week. He was even stepping over the bottom gates. I suspect he wasn't just an average gongoozler.

 

JP

 

 

 

Yes I agree with all of that. 

 

You are right, I would welcome vollies going ahead and setting the locks, and/or closing up behind me.

 

Having had a minor scare staying on my boat while a random other boater worked me through and realising there was nothing I could do from the helm, I no longer stay on the boat in a lock as a matter of policy. even if I cannot avoid a volly or other boater interfering. I've had a few mutterings under the breath when I've still got off the boat when instructed "stay on the boat, we'll do it for you" by someone I've never met. 

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

Yes I agree with all of that. 

 

You are right, I would welcome vollies going ahead and setting the locks, and/or closing up behind me.

 

Having had a minor scare staying on my boat while a random other boater worked me through and realising there was nothing I could do from the helm, I no longer stay on the boat in a lock as a matter of policy. even if I cannot avoid a volly or other boater interfering. I've had a few mutterings under the breath when I've still got off the boat when instructed "stay on the boat, we'll do it for you" by someone I've never met. 

same

[roland elsdon]

I think if someone told me to stay on my boat they would do the lock, when running solo i would instantly be concerned. I have a very very fixed routine, involving tying off or leaving in gear, and only winding one paddle slowly.

I had a minor incident recently with a volunteer on a narrow lock, who on seeing the bow fender caught under the top rail chose to mention it rather than doing anything... then the breakpoint snapped. If the fender had not had a breakpoint it would have lifted the gate off. Course mrs E was setting 2 locks ahead...we only meet on lock free pounds or when she gets a puncture.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

I think if someone told me to stay on my boat they would do the lock, when running solo i would instantly be concerned. I have a very very fixed routine, involving tying off or leaving in gear, and only winding one paddle slowly.

I had a minor incident recently with a volunteer on a narrow lock, who on seeing the bow fender caught under the top rail chose to mention it rather than doing anything... then the breakpoint snapped. If the fender had not had a breakpoint it would have lifted the gate off. Course mrs E was setting 2 locks ahead...we only meet on lock free pounds or when she gets a puncture.

Perhaps he had already twigged you didn't want him touching your lock.

[Rob-M]

We came through Fradley this morning, a single handed boater in front of us. I asked if he would like us to work the lock for him as we pulled up at the first lock as he was entering, he said yes and stayed on his boat. The next two locks had a volunteer working them who just assumed we all wanted help as they closed the gate and wound a paddle without speaking.

[roland elsdon]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Perhaps he had already twigged you didn't want him touching your lock.

No he had wound the paddle up in one go whilst i was shutting the back gate. Didnt bother asking why he chose to pull a paddle  rather than shut gate. 

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

No he had wound the paddle up in one go whilst i was shutting the back gate. Didnt bother asking why he chose to pull a paddle  rather than shut gate. 

Because you were that end off the back of the boat ?

[starman]

I'd like to offer a word of support for the much maligned volockies at Hillmorton who have managed to temper the idiotic 'one lock of each pair is closed to save water' edict from CRT with some commonsense. Namely they've taken it upon themselves to open all the locks when queues build up. (The other morning there were 12 boats waiting at the top when the locks opened and only one coming the other way.) If they weren't there, you'd just have to wait – no jobsworth from CRT would be coming out to unlock them.

And just as a footnote, there was a volockie on duty all day Sunday in the pouring rain – and there were plenty glad of the help.

[gbclive]

17 minutes ago, starman said:

I'd like to offer a word of support for the much maligned volockies at Hillmorton who have managed to temper the idiotic 'one lock of each pair is closed to save water' edict from CRT with some commonsense. Namely they've taken it upon themselves to open all the locks when queues build up. (The other morning there were 12 boats waiting at the top when the locks opened and only one coming the other way.) If they weren't there, you'd just have to wait – no jobsworth from CRT would be coming out to unlock them.

And just as a footnote, there was a volockie on duty all day Sunday in the pouring rain – and there were plenty glad of the help.

We came down the flight a few days ago during the early rush at 0900 - I thanked the volockie for opening both locks to clear the queue.

Two CRT guys then gave him some grief for not consulting them first - he gave a spirited rebuttal along the lines that they were not there at the time?

[roland elsdon]

10 hours ago, starman said:

I'd like to offer a word of support for the much maligned volockies at Hillmorton who have managed to temper the idiotic 'one lock of each pair is closed to save water' edict from CRT with some commonsense. Namely they've taken it upon themselves to open all the locks when queues build up. (The other morning there were 12 boats waiting at the top when the locks opened and only one coming the other way.) If they weren't there, you'd just have to wait – no jobsworth from CRT would be coming out to unlock them.

And just as a footnote, there was a volockie on duty all day Sunday in the pouring rain – and there were plenty glad of the help.

Good on him, probably the one who stormed off shortly before our locking. He had been arguing with the one we had a problem with. She was spouting crt gibberish about there being no pumps, as a justification for only one lock. Pump running like mad at the top...

[Mike Todd]

11 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Good on him, probably the one who stormed off shortly before our locking. He had been arguing with the one we had a problem with. She was spouting crt gibberish about there being no pumps, as a justification for only one lock. Pump running like mad at the top...

Has anyone attempted an explanation of how using only one lock saves water?

[rowland al]

34 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Has anyone attempted an explanation of how using only one lock saves water?

That’s easy.  It reduces the amout of traffic as lots of people don’t like waiting.

[rowland al]

47 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Has anyone attempted an explanation of how using only one lock saves water?

No seriously, queues increase the chance of a boat coming down using the water you sent into the lock to go up.