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Opinions on a 60' trad for sale?


jetzi

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1 minute ago, ivan&alice said:

Gotcha. So it is possible that she's been recently whitewashed for the sale, which is actually hiding some problems?

 

A Racing certainty I'd say. Nobody actually builds boats looking like that inside. It is a standard technique to brighten up a tired interior tat seems to appeal to London residents and no-body anywhere else.

 

It is not necessarily 'hiding problems', other than getting all the white paint off again should you decide you want to see the wood underneath.

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14 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

 

 

The interior is not really my primary concern though, because surely this can be changed, improved or fixed as and when necessary - even the cross bed? What I'm looking at is the hull, the equipment, the electrics - all of which seem really decent to me (pending survey, of course). Having looked at quite a few boats now, I think she has one of the better sets of features at her price point. In particular the electrics (500W panels, 4x batteries, inverter) are appealing to us as we need power to work from home. Beta Marine 1305 35hp engine with 1900 hours on it and a calorifier. Diesel heating system and morso stove. I'm not intimately familiar with boat equipment but from my research it all sounds good.

 


 

All we're trying to do here is help you make an informed decision, and so often first time buyers make the mistake of overlooking the fit out because the hull looks tidy or there's a decent level of equipment. As you say, the internals can always be changed, but, you cannot underestimate the amount of time and expense involved in altering the layout of a boat or correcting a previous owners slapdash attempts.  (It's one reason why ex hire boats are a very popular choice, because they tend to be relatively easy to take apart and change round.) 

 

Plus, a bespoke interior made to someone's individual taste devalues a boat when compared to a proper professional fit out.

 

£45,000 is an awful lot of money, beware of talking yourself into buying something that other more experienced people have reservations about. 

 

Actually, even in London I think this boat will struggle to sell anywhere near what they are asking, if you really like it I would wait until it comes down to something like a realistic price.

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1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

£45,000 is an awful lot of money, beware of talking yourself into buying something that other more experienced people have reservations about. 

 

My thoughts too 

 

Elsewhere in the UK £45k will buy a superb boat not subjected to 'London whiteout' or needing a proper bed building. 

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I think this is a very reasonable approach. I agree that she's not worth as much as 45K and we'll certainly offer substantially less than this (we don't have 45 in any case). If the seller isn't willing to negotiate then we'll continue our search inland.

That said, any boat is going to have its downsides and if the primary one is the colour of the walls and the orientation of the bed... I can live with that! Certainly more so than an electrical system that is too small, an engine without a calorifier, or a hull built by an amateur.

We're going to take her for a test drive on Friday afternoon before we make a decision. I know that we've been recommended against an "in water survey", but we'd love to take someone who knows more than us along. Do any of you know anyone based in London, perhaps on the forum or a surveyor they could recommend, who could come along give us a second opinion?

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9 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

I think this is a very reasonable approach. I agree that she's not worth as much as 45K and we'll certainly offer substantially less than this (we don't have 45 in any case). If the seller isn't willing to negotiate then we'll continue our search inland.

That said, any boat is going to have its downsides and if the primary one is the colour of the walls and the orientation of the bed... I can live with that! Certainly more so than an electrical system that is too small, an engine without a calorifier, or a hull built by an amateur.

We're going to take her for a test drive on Friday afternoon before we make a decision. I know that we've been recommended against an "in water survey", but we'd love to take someone who knows more than us along. Do any of you know anyone based in London, perhaps on the forum or a surveyor they could recommend, who could come along give us a second opinion?

 

 

Might be worth saying which bit of London. London is a bloody big place and travelling from one part to another can be a big investment in time. 

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In my short time on this forum I've noticed that whenever a boat for sale is discussed, its generally in negative terms.  Especially if it's in London.  The exception is when it's a forum member who's selling, when general nods of approval come from all around.

 

I actually think the price isn't far off for this boat, and will likely sell for close to the asking price in London.  The spec level looks pretty good and I'd expect to pay substantially more for anything noticeably better.  The test is to go and see it in person and look closely.  Even under paint you should be able to tell if the wood is knackered.  Look properly, down in the bilges, under the shower tray.  Look for condensation around windows, doors and hatches or anywhere where insulation may be lacking.  Are there signs of rot?  From 2002 a bit would be fairly normal.  A lot wouldn't be.  Look for evidence of repairs and servicing.  Looks for external signs of rust around windows and the chimbley collar.

 

A close inspection by someone with common sense will usually show up if it's a dud.

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7 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

In my short time on this forum I've noticed that whenever a boat for sale is discussed, its generally in negative terms. 

 

A close inspection by someone with common sense will usually show up if it's a dud.

There is something in what you say, but in my experience such comments are often made with sound motives, as in, chap comes on here, new to boating, and thinks he's found a screaming bargain, and more experienced members explain why it may not be so, to save the new member from potential disappointment and unwarranted financial strain. There have certainly been many positive comments on potential purchases over the years, particularly if they've been good boats.

 

Edited to add: I have just had a look back through this thread and actually there have been some positive comments on the boat.

Edited by Athy
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2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

In my short time on this forum I've noticed that whenever a boat for sale is discussed, its generally in negative terms.  Especially if it's in London.  The exception is when it's a forum member who's selling, when general nods of approval come from all around.

 

I actually think the price isn't far off for this boat, and will likely sell for close to the asking price in London.  The spec level looks pretty good and I'd expect to pay substantially more for anything noticeably better.  The test is to go and see it in person and look closely.  Even under paint you should be able to tell if the wood is knackered.  Look properly, down in the bilges, under the shower tray.  Look for condensation around windows, doors and hatches or anywhere where insulation may be lacking.  Are there signs of rot?  From 2002 a bit would be fairly normal.  A lot wouldn't be.  Look for evidence of repairs and servicing.  Looks for external signs of rust around windows and the chimbley collar.

 

A close inspection by someone with common sense will usually show up if it's a dud.

I haven't looked recently but how much is a brand new sixty foot sail away now? This boat is 16 years old which may mean it's in fine fettle but equally could be a rusty pig. It's not much more than a sail away as all the kit is old now and the batteries may well be worthless, the inverter I have a spare brand new victory combi that cost me 300 quid etc etc. It is probably naff lining just covered in paint? I ain't seen it so may well be off the mark but 45 k it certainly ain't.

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17 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I haven't looked recently but how much is a brand new sixty foot sail away now? This boat is 16 years old which may mean it's in fine fettle but equally could be a rusty pig. It's not much more than a sail away as all the kit is old now and the batteries may well be worthless, the inverter I have a spare brand new victory combi that cost me 300 quid etc etc. It is probably naff lining just covered in paint? I ain't seen it so may well be off the mark but 45 k it certainly ain't.

You might be able to buy a sailaway for around 45k but the OP has already stated that his budget doesn't stretch that far.  How is he going to fit it out?  If he needs to pay a boatyard to fit it out for him then how much do you think it will cost? 

 

There's a reason why a new, fully  fitted 60' would cost at least 70k even at the bottom end of the market.

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5 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

 

 

The interior is not really my primary concern though, because surely this can be changed, improved or fixed as and when necessary - even the cross bed? What I'm looking at is the hull, the equipment, the electrics - all of which seem really decent to me (pending survey, of course). Having looked at quite a few boats now, I think she has one of the better sets of features at her price point. In particular the electrics (500W panels, 4x batteries, inverter) are appealing to us as we need power to work from home. Beta Marine 1305 35hp engine with 1900 hours on it and a calorifier. Diesel heating system and morso stove. I'm not intimately familiar with boat equipment but from my research it all sounds good.

 


Just to confirm, when you guys say "London focussed" are you talking about the style of the interior (modern rather than traditional)? Or what about this boat makes it more suited for London than elsewhere?

I know you say the interior is not your main concern - and you're right, it's the shell, the engine and the major equipment that's crucial - but don't overlook the work involved in sorting out an interior, especially when you're trying to live in it. And it's not just woodwork - a tart-up job could conceal a whole can of worms, especially badly done wiring. All that said, you seem to be going about the whole boat search in a pretty solid way so good luck. Have you looked around at boats well outside the London bubble?

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3 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

I actually think the price isn't far off for this boat, and will likely sell for close to the asking price in London. 

 

I agree, for a London boat the price looks about right. BUT, the op has stated repeatedly he is not wedded to getting a London boat and in my opinion, if he ever looks outside London he will find far better boats for £45k. 

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The survey comes with some pictures of the interior before the whitewash, and it looks cheap but fine, looks like a plasticy veneer underneath.

We haven't seen other boats outside of London, we do plan to do so but it is difficult to find the time. We would rather do this first, of course, but we also don't want to let a potentially good boat go while we are waiting to get out of London.

All that said, the data just doesn't seem to back up the theory that boats are more expensive in London. I've compared prices from all over the country and done what I can to correct for age, length and boat builder. Distance from London seems to be totally uncorrelated with the asking prices.

oldinterior.png

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree, for a London boat the price looks about right. BUT, the op has stated repeatedly he is not wedded to getting a London boat and in my opinion, if he ever looks outside London he will find far better boats for £45k. 

Post an example then, I'm genuinely interested in what you find for a similar price which would be far better.

4 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

The survey comes with some pictures of the interior before the whitewash, and it looks cheap but fine, looks like a plasticy veneer underneath.

We haven't seen other boats outside of London, we do plan to do so but it is difficult to find the time. We would rather do this first, of course, but we also don't want to let a potentially good boat go while we are waiting to get out of London.

All that said, the data just doesn't seem to back up the theory that boats are more expensive in London. I've compared prices from all over the country and done what I can to correct for age, length and boat builder. Distance from London seems to be totally uncorrelated with the asking prices.

oldinterior.png

It looks a hell of a lot tidier than mine!  I'm pretty jealous actually!

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Just now, rusty69 said:

The challenge has been set. Will Mtb rise to the occasion? Is dora genuinely genuinely interested? Is Mtb trawling the internet sites as we speak, or is he up the pub?

 

Tune in next week to find out folk!

As far as I can tell, Mike is glued to this forum 24/7. So I doubt a week's wait will be needed.

 

I like the boat but I'm not interested, 60' is more length than a small girl can handle.

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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A Racing certainty I'd say. Nobody actually builds boats looking like that inside. It is a standard technique to brighten up a tired interior tat seems to appeal to London residents and no-body anywhere else.

 

It is not necessarily 'hiding problems', other than getting all the white paint off again should you decide you want to see the wood underneath.

I wouldnt want to see wood underneath, our boat has a white ceiling, wallpaper on the walls and cream trim. White Galley doors and draws.  

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Nice modern Bathroom, I take it that modern crews don't have flanels, tooth paste, toothbrushes, razors and all the tat that usually sits above the bathroom sink, and where does gran put her teef overnight?

All these modern picture living rooms are all very well, but wait till you get onboard and then you'le wonder were your gonna put the doz or so pairs of socks, those Jumpers Trousers and shall I mention shoes and boots? If your gonna buy that boat then best be starting an account with Ikia!

 

Just sayin like!

 

Nipper

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4 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

In my short time on this forum I've noticed that whenever a boat for sale is discussed, its generally in negative terms.  Especially if it's in London.  The exception is when it's a forum member who's selling, when general nods of approval come from all around.

I think that is correct, probably to remove the rose glasses

4 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

I actually think the price isn't far off for this boat, and will likely sell for close to the asking price in London.  The spec level looks pretty good and I'd expect to pay substantially more for anything noticeably better. 

Trojan Batteries, a good make of inverter and other good stuff

 

 

4 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

The test is to go and see it in person and look closely.  Even under paint you should be able to tell if the wood is knackered.  Look properly, down in the bilges, under the shower tray.  Look for condensation around windows, doors and hatches or anywhere where insulation may be lacking.  Are there signs of rot?  From 2002 a bit would be fairly normal.  A lot wouldn't be.  Look for evidence of repairs and servicing.  Looks for external signs of rust around windows and the chimbley collar.

 

A close inspection by someone with common sense will usually show up if it's a dud.

Agree 

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