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Lockgate Refleks 2000 thermostat problem


eid

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My Refleks stove has the back-boiler included which has a safety thermostat which attaches to the outgoing water pipe and cuts off the fuel if it overheats (due to pump failure).

 

When I purchased the boat, the thermostat was attached to the return pipe. This isn't going to do anything as if the pump fails the return pipe won't be getting hot at all. I re-attached it to the outgoing pipe, but it activates the fuel cut-off at a very low temperature (the pipe feels warm to the touch).

 

Does anyone have any experience/advice on this? Is it adjustable? Or something?

 

Thanks

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Hi,

I have a Kabola drip feed heater (it's a smaller unit than the Reflecks) with a similar shut off arrangement it seems to shut the fuel supply off at just under 100C, it fits into a special housing which forms part of the outgoing hot pipe,I  will look out some pics when I have time. it works satisfactorily and I can use the heater without the pump switched on, provided the heater is set to a very low setting.

Hope that helps. 

 

I think KK (the Master of all things Reflecks) might have one of these fittings on his stove.

 

L.

I have attached a picture , special housing top left (just off pic), wire down to shut off valve.

 

IMG_3414 Cropped.jpg

Edited by LEO
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1 hour ago, eid said:

My Refleks stove has the back-boiler included which has a safety thermostat which attaches to the outgoing water pipe and cuts off the fuel if it overheats (due to pump failure).

 

When I purchased the boat, the thermostat was attached to the return pipe. This isn't going to do anything as if the pump fails the return pipe won't be getting hot at all. I re-attached it to the outgoing pipe, but it activates the fuel cut-off at a very low temperature (the pipe feels warm to the touch).

 

Does anyone have any experience/advice on this? Is it adjustable? Or something?

 

Thanks

It’s not adjustable, you will need to replace with another that’s set for another temperature.

 

http://www.kbbfirevalve.co.uk/kbb-fire-valve.php

Edited by Robbo
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Maybe a daft suggestion as I have never seen such a stove close up but is there any way to put some insulation between the stat and the pipe?  My back boiler has such a switch that turns on a circulation pump and it would be doable with that.

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22 minutes ago, Robbo said:

 

 

53 minutes ago, LEO said:

Hi,

I have a Kabola drip feed heater (it's a smaller unit than the Reflecks) with a similar shut off arrangement it seems to shut the fuel supply off at just under 100C, it fits into a special housing which forms part of the outgoing hot pipe,I  will look out some pics when I have time. it works satisfactorily and I can use the heater without the pump switched on, provided the heater is set to a very low setting.

Hope that helps. 

 

I think KK (the Master of all things Reflecks) might have one of these fittings on his stove.

 

L.

I have attached a picture , special housing top left (just off pic), wire down to shut off valve.

 

 

I don't have any housing on mine for the thermostat to go in, just bare pipes. Your post did give me the idea to somehow insulate the thermostat (bog-roll or something) so it doesn't activate at such a low temperature. I'd rather fix it properly if I can though.

I don't like using the stove without the pump because the pipe gets very hot and is quite close to some cables.

 

edit: Now I think about it, I wonder if mine is meant to have some such housing?

 

Thanks for your response.

22 minutes ago, Robbo said:

It’s not adjustable, you will need to replace with another that’s set for another temperature.

 

http://www.kbbfirevalve.co.uk/kbb-fire-valve.php

Hi Robbo,

 

The thermostat wire on my stove goes straight into the regulator. I had assumed that is where the heat setting would be? If it's not adjustable, why is it set to trip at such a low (and useless) temperature?

It's possible I'm seeing this all wrong of course :)

9 minutes ago, philjw said:

Maybe a daft suggestion as I have never seen such a stove close up but is there any way to put some insulation between the stat and the pipe?  My back boiler has such a switch that turns on a circulation pump and it would be doable with that.

 

Hi philjw,

 

I thought of the same thing after reading the first reply actually. I'd rather fix it properly but otherwise I'll prbbably do this.

 

Thanks.

Edited by eid
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1 minute ago, eid said:

The thermostat wire on my stove goes straight into the regulator. I had assumed that is where the heat setting would be? If it's not adjustable, why is it set to trip at such a low (and useless) temperature?

It's possible I'm seeing this all wrong of course :)

I presume it’s a KBB like the one I linked to?   It should say the temperature on the label.

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55 minutes ago, LEO said:

 

I think KK (the Master of all things Refleks) might have one of these fittings on his stove.

 

Sorry, can't help.  I've never bothered to fit a thermostat and have never had any trouble with overheating in over twenty years.  Occasionally I forget to switch the pump on and the Refleks soon lets me know because the central heating starts banging.

I know some users like Leo leave theirs on all winter in which case a cut out device is probably essential but I never have my stove on when I'm away from the boat.

KK

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6 minutes ago, Robbo said:

I presume it’s a KBB like the one I linked to?   It should say the temperature on the label.

No, I'm pretty sure it came with the stove. There are no labels. You can see the wire going into the regulator in the picture. The other end is just a normal copper (?) thermostat.

 

20180814_213812.jpg

1 minute ago, koukouvagia said:

Sorry, can't help.  I've never bothered to fit a thermostat and have never had any trouble with overheating in over twenty years.  Occasionally I forget to switch the pump on and the Refleks soon lets me know because the central heating starts banging.

I know some users like Leo leave theirs on all winter in which case a cut out device is probably essential but I never have my stove on when I'm away from the boat.

KK

I wouldn't mind leaving it on at night :)

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I think I am right in saying that there is an extra float under the lid that sits in its own"chamber" with weir that is normally above the oil level connecting it to the main float chamber. The purpose is to cut the fuel off if the oil level rises that would result in over firing. Do you have a weeping level/needle valve so over time the safety float has triggered?

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1 hour ago, eid said:

I just tried to light the stove and now the safety switch won't stay down at all, so I guess there's some other problem with it. Anyone have any idea what this could be?

I would take off the cover and give everything a good clean out.  See Tony's remarks.  You may very well find gunge  in the bottom of the float chamber which is preventing the float from sitting properly.  The safety lever is very easily tripped.  

 

NB don't try to alter any of the adjustment screws unless you know what you are doing.

 

Eta. Have you checked the operation of the lever with the cover removed?  It is possible to dislodge the end of the lever if it's been knocked.  

What is happening to the level of the fuel in the chamber?  Does the safety switch stay latched when the chamber is empty? If it doesn't  the problem is likely to mechanical; if it does it's probably an over fuelling problem.

Edited by koukouvagia
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46 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think I am right in saying that there is an extra float under the lid that sits in its own"chamber" with weir that is normally above the oil level connecting it to the main float chamber. The purpose is to cut the fuel off if the oil level rises that would result in over firing. Do you have a weeping level/needle valve so over time the safety float has triggered?

This is what it looks like inside.

 

thermo2.jpg.aeda26f516aa399e9598c1c320b25b1c.jpg

 

I found that the lever which the safety catch attaches to was stuck in the tripped position and slightly stiff.  I gently moved it up and down a few times, which seems to have solved that problem, for now.

 

Thank you for your response.

37 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

I would take off the cover and give everything a good clean out.  See Tony's remarks.  You may very well find hinge in The bottom of the float chamber which is preventing The float from sitting properly.  The safety lever is very easily tripped.  

 

NB don't try to alter any of the adjustment screws unless you know what you are doing.

 

Eta. Have you checked the operation of the lever with the cover removed?  It is possible to dislodge the end of the lever if it's been knocked.  

What is happening to the level of the fuel in the chamber?  Does the safety switch stay latched when the chamber is empty?

It's fixed for now but I'll follow your advice and give it a clean up. The person I bought the boat off said the control knob sometimes doesn't do anything until given a small knock, so it obviously needs some maintenance anyway.

When you say "chamber" do you mean inside the regulator? How would I empty it.... Hold the float up while leaving the knob on, draining it into the stove?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

 

To go back to my original question regarding the thermostat, there does appear to be a knob to adjust..something.. the tightness of the coil maybe? (see above) I'm not about to try it until I find out what it does. You can see below where the wire from the thermostat connects.

 

thermo1.jpg.de3cd9502ed726e1bf10dbf89ea8917e.jpg.

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Quote

 

1 hour ago, eid said:

I found that the lever which the safety catch attaches to was stuck in the tripped position and slightly stiff.  I gently moved it up and down a few times, which seems to have solved that problem, for now.

 

Actually the lever is still staying in the tripped position (up) when it gets tripped by the thermostat. Should it be able to just fall down or is something else stopping it?

 

edit:

I turned the fuel supply off at the tap, turned the stove on and lit it. After a couple of minutes, I guess due to the fuel level lowering, the "stuck" lever went back to the down position when i pushed down the safety lever. So I guess there is a problem with a float, leaky valve or something as you both suggested.

 

Edited by eid
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30 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Its not a wire, its a capillary tube, oil filled.

That's interesting, thank you. So it uses pressure then. I had some vague notion that heat travelled up the copper and did something or other at the other end. ?

 

 

 

I finally got over my aversion to taking the thing apart.

20180815_121516.jpg.561b61b22997dfb9c4feffe44eb227de.jpg

 

The adjustment knob moves the pin at the other end in and out. The pin sits in the small cup on the assembly below it, which trips the safety mechanism. It was adjusted pretty much all the way out so that a small amount of heat set it off. Everything seems fine now and I'm glad I got to see the insides and understand how it all works (all your posts make much more sense  to me now).

 

There wasn't a problem with the overflow chamber (there was a couple of mm diesel in there). Whatever was making the trip lever stiff has gone (it moves freely now with no stiffness at all).

 

I forgot to clean everything but it didn't seem to need it after being dismantled and I was keen on reassembling and testing the thermostat adjustment. I'll make sure to clean it out at some point though.

 

Here's a couple of pictures for anyone who's interested:

 

20180815_121702.jpg.0edd0621cd77232fb4ca49b10f688e31.jpg20180815_123233.jpg.c510784ac1da8e5c23b64be37258ad69.jpg20180815_122434.jpg.06530147f5cd233f6bc16512bcf738f2.jpg

 

Thank you all for the help.

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4 hours ago, eid said:

 

It's fixed for now but I'll follow your advice and give it a clean up. The person I bought the boat off said the control knob sometimes doesn't do anything until given a small knock, so it obviously needs some maintenance anyway. 

 

The metering stem has a hair's width slit.  Sometimes a meniscus forms and a light tap on the regulator is the approved method of breaking the surface tension.

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Thank you. Coincidentally, a few minutes ago I was wondering where this aversion came from. I used to love taking stuff apart too, and like you, could never put it back together. I guess that explains it really. I have noticed in recent years though that my patience has improved and I break things less.

 

 

20 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

The metering stem has a hair's width slit.  Sometimes a meniscus forms and a light tap on the regulator is the approved method of breaking the surface tension.

Great, I love easy fixes.

 

edit:

 

I was wondering what this button was for earlier. Does it do the same thing as the light tap?

 

20180815_111014.jpg.171a9b0ec10973eacfa9f9265b360270.jpg

Edited by eid
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Now that's all working properly I have another problem which I hope someone can help with:

When I have the control knob set to 1, I get almost perfect blue flames jetting out of the small top holes and the larger mid holes. However, as I increase the setting 2-6 the flame gets increasingly yellow, although even at 6 it is blue at the base of each flame, and they still jet out perfectly from the top holes (though no longer the mid holes).

 

Can anyone offer any suggestions to fix this?

 

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Just now, Tony Brooks said:

Longer chimney to increase the draw?

 

If you get to a show ave a look at the length of the flue and chimneys on the Bubble stove caravan.

 

I do have a longer chimney. I'll give it a try.

 

Thanks!

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19 minutes ago, eid said:

Now that's all working properly I have another problem which I hope someone can help with:

When I have the control knob set to 1, I get almost perfect blue flames jetting out of the small top holes and the larger mid holes. However, as I increase the setting 2-6 the flame gets increasingly yellow, although even at 6 it is blue at the base of each flame, and they still jet out perfectly from the top holes (though no longer the mid holes).

 

Can anyone offer any suggestions to fix this?

 

 

I had similar problems. This thread shows how to fix it. In particular Koukouvagias thread on stripping and servicing a drip feed stove is useful.

 

 

 

Edited by cuthound
To add koukouvagia thread link
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4 hours ago, eid said:

Now that's all working properly I have another problem which I hope someone can help with:

When I have the control knob set to 1, I get almost perfect blue flames jetting out of the small top holes and the larger mid holes. However, as I increase the setting 2-6 the flame gets increasingly yellow, although even at 6 it is blue at the base of each flame, and they still jet out perfectly from the top holes (though no longer the mid holes).

 

Can anyone offer any suggestions to fix this?

 

You need to adjust the high flame screw and turn it down.  Before you do this make sure the stove is fully heated up then make a very small  (1/4 turn)  adjustment.  Then leave alone for ten minutes and observe the effect. 

These stoves don't need tall chimneys to work efficiently, but they don't like too many bends, especially right angled ones, in the flue.

 

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