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Overstaying


Gareth E

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1 hour ago, Gareth E said:

It was interesting to read the BW motor cycle publication. The problem was identified, specifically, as being people riding motor cycles along the towpath. The suggested legal remedies, again, applied to riding the bike, rather than its presence on the towpath, or it being pushed along it. Unless a further publication exists referring to problems caused by motor cycles being on the towpath, not ridden, and assuming that they are not causing an obstruction, it seems that this has not been identified as a problem. This fits in with the reality of my bike being 'spotted' by CRT staff on occasions that run into the hundreds, with just the one resultant discussion. 

You assume too much.

 

Only CRT staff whose remit includes enforcement would say anything.

 

The vast majority of CRT staff are not involved in enforcement, and it isn't their job to say anything,

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5 hours ago, Tanglewood said:

I'm not sure it is.  The theory to which you refer is strategic thinking often based on understanding probability, which aims to minimise loss in certain scenarios,  what I am getting at here is a subliminal response affecting emotion where most humans tend to feel potential loss as a great threat and potential gain often not recognised.  This   obviously  varies from individual to individual and extreme sports exist because some folk seem to be wired in the exact reverse.   

 

As a society we tend to embrace rules as they seem to be protective.  Once a number of people have broken those rules then the likelihood of them being broken increases, although the factors that influence this are multiple rather than singular and not solely related to someone else's behaviour.  

minimax is about minimising the maximum loss (not simply minimising loss) It starts from an hypothesis that people do worry about what they might lose - insurance depends on a similar assumption. To this extent, I think what you are saying is in the same area of understanding humans. It is not necessarily rational as it does mean that the best outcomes (usually risky) are usually missed in favour of safer ones. Retrospectively (ie when all risk is removed) decision makers are criticised for not having achieved 'the best' outcome.

 

An example from my own experience: the CofE has, in most dioceses, been selling old and inefficient, usually too large, traditional parsonages for some time now, in favour of properties more suitable and easier/cheaper to maintain. In most dioceses there is an acceptable risk profile for investment which is explicitly cautious.  As a result, the action is usually to sell on the open market on an as-is basis. The property is then bought by a speculator (who has a different risk profile) who invests significantly in doing up the property before selling it at a much higher price than the diocese received. The sale price becomes public knowledge and the diocese is criticised for selling at too low a price, thereby 'wasting' the asset. 

 

In fact, no-one has done anything 'wrong' as they are responding to different risk profiles which, in turn, determine the best strategy. The diocese could not have achieved the higher sale price as it is not in a position to speculate to the degree that is needed to gain that return. Not all speculative investments go the plus direction!

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On 17/08/2018 at 12:22, Machpoint005 said:

That's because you are still in charge of the vehicle, and drunk. It so happens that the line is drawn in the right place in that case, IMHO.

So on a cold wet winters night you have a choice (in our area at least) a long cold wet walk home or risk being done  for drink driving.  I suspect most will think OK if I am going to be done I may as well risk it and get home rather than stay in the pub car park and probably be more likely to get prosecuted..  

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10 hours ago, Jerra said:

So on a cold wet winters night you have a choice (in our area at least) a long cold wet walk home or risk being done  for drink driving.  I suspect most will think OK if I am going to be done I may as well risk it and get home rather than stay in the pub car park and probably be more likely to get prosecuted..  

Does this law apply on private land, which a pub car park will usually be?

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

Does this law apply on private land, which a pub car park will usually be?

Private ownership of the land is irrelevant; the relevant criteria is "the motor vehicle must be in a place to which the public has access." Any car park will necessarily qualify, though a private driveway behind a gate would not. Plenty of scope for enthusiastic officers to construe situations in between as they see plausible. And anything drivable on the roads will qualify, whether motorhome or not – although if you were tucked up in bed when the officer came knocking, that could be persuasive argument before a judge that your intention to not drive was sufficiently arguable.

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On 17/08/2018 at 15:16, Mike Todd said:

Retrospectively (ie when all risk is removed) decision makers are criticised for not having achieved 'the best' outcome.

The wonderful wisdom of hindsight.  And of course this does contribute to rule breaking. The first post in this whole thread was a risk analysis exercise  with someone wanting to see if he could learn from others experience of overstaying in order to judge whether he was likely to incur a loss he could not afford/accommodate/tolerate/accept.

Edited by Tanglewood
deletion of superfluous word
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