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Hello,

 

Am looking to put vents on our doors.

 

Am wondering is it better for them to be at the bottom or the top or both?

 

Thanks,

 

Malcolm

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Usualy at the bottom as low ventilation. High ventilation is often via such as mushroom vents for instance on such as narrow boats.

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If you don't already know, the amount of ventilation (high and low level) required for the boat to meet the Boat Safety Scheme requirements is dependent upon the heating and cooking appliances you have on board.

 

See here for further information.

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/non-private-boats/part-8-appliances,-flueing-ventilation/ventilation/

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25 minutes ago, cuthound said:

If you don't already know, the amount of ventilation (high and low level) required for the boat to meet the Boat Safety Scheme requirements is dependent upon the heating and cooking appliances you have on board.

 

See here for further information.

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/non-private-boats/part-8-appliances,-flueing-ventilation/ventilation/

Just a pedantic correction, but important never the less.

 

There is not a REQUIREMENT for a certain amount of ventilation in the BSS.

There is an ADVISORY that if there is (what is considered to be) insufficient ventilation it is bought to the owners attention as something they may wish to address.

 

You cannot fail the BSS for insufficient ventilation.

 

Quoting the 2002 requirements is not really that helpful as the BSS has changed in the last 16 years (last version 2015)

Extract from the 2015 BSS

 

8.9 Ventilation (A)
8.9.1 Is the vessel provided with adequate fixed ventilation? 
Calculate the fixed ventilation requirements in accordance with
Appendix K.

 

The letter A after the subject heading indicates an advisory condition - a Letter R after the subject heading indicates a 'Requirement'

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 minute ago, Detling said:

I thought ventilation was mandatory for hire boat or renting your boat type BSS.

It is.

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I would try my hardest to avoid putting vents in doors. Can you not fit a baffled system so you don't get a force 8 gale in the winter blowing through the boat? (that is when some people bung them up)

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20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I would try my hardest to avoid putting vents in doors. Can you not fit a baffled system so you don't get a force 8 gale in the winter blowing through the boat? (that is when some people bung them up)

What a shame most boatbuilders don't think of that

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I'm 2 square inches short of low level ventilation. I think he calculated I have 32 square inches, and need 34 square inches, if everything is on, full blast, and all doors and windows are closed. 

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8 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I'm 2 square inches short of low level ventilation. I think he calculated I have 32 square inches, and need 34 square inches, if everything is on, full blast, and all doors and windows are closed. 

Don't panic - The BSS allows you to calculate & include 'permanent' gaps around door, windows etc. 2" square around a couple of badly fitting doors would easily be achieved

(an 1/8"gap around a door - 3' high x 2' wide - would equate to approx. 1" squared)

 

Extract from the 'rules' :

 

NOTE – permanent and measurable gaps around doors and windows when the windows or doors are fully
closed can be taken into account as part of the fixed ventilation provision.

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Don't panic - The BSS allows you to calculate & include 'permanent' gaps around door, windows etc. 2" square around a couple of badly fitting doors would easily be achieved

(an 1/8"gap around a door - 3' high x 2' wide - would equate to approx. 1" squared)

 

Extract from the 'rules' :

 

NOTE – permanent and measurable gaps around doors and windows when the windows or doors are fully
closed can be taken into account as part of the fixed ventilation provision.

I'm not panicing :) However, the examiner expressly stated that my doors and windows were particularly well fitted, and closely sealed, so he wasn't able to add anything for non existent gaps. He did imply that, whilst he had to advise me to increase the ventilation by said 2 square inches, he was quite happy that he was unlikely to hear that I had died due to the shortfall.

 

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7 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

I'm not panicing :) However, the examiner expressly stated that my doors and windows were particularly well fitted, and closely sealed, so he wasn't able to add anything for non existent gaps. He did imply that, whilst he had to advise me to increase the ventilation by said 2 square inches, he was quite happy that he was unlikely to hear that I had died due to the shortfall.

 

A rare animal (an examiner with common sense) hang onto him.

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A rare animal (an examiner with common sense) hang onto him.

Radiomariner was another good ‘un but he retired some time back. 

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14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Don't panic - The BSS allows you to calculate & include 'permanent' gaps around door, windows etc. 2" square around a couple of badly fitting doors would easily be achieved

(an 1/8"gap around a door - 3' high x 2' wide - would equate to approx. 1" squared)

 

Extract from the 'rules' :

 

NOTE – permanent and measurable gaps around doors and windows when the windows or doors are fully
closed can be taken into account as part of the fixed ventilation provision.

 

Pity the BSS examiner who failed our last shareboat  (back in 2006) didn't know this. When I pointed put the daylight visible around the back doors, slide and side hatches, he told me they were "fortuitous ventilation" and thus couldn't be excluded. He also didn't answer my question as to how drafts knew not to go through these gaps,  but to go through the louvered vents instead 🤔

 

Perhaps the guidance note has been added for clarification following complaints?

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15 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Pity the BSS examiner who failed our last shareboat  (back in 2006) didn't know this. When I pointed put the daylight visible around the back doors, slide and side hatches, he told me they were "fortuitous ventilation" and thus couldn't be excluded. He also didn't answer my question as to how drafts knew not to go through these gaps,  but to go through the louvered vents instead 🤔

 

Perhaps the guidance note has been added for clarification following complaints?

Being 2006 (and operating under the 2002 BSS requirements) he was correct.

 

Those were the days when men were men and boats were 'safe'

 

2002 Requirements for ventilation :

 

Standard 8.9

Adequate fixed ventilation shall be provided in
accordance with the requirements of BS 5482-3 in
vessels in which LPG or other fuel appliances are
used.
(NOTE: Ventilators should be weathertight to cater for
the worst conditions likely to be encountered.
Vessels which regularly proceed to sea and would
likely experience severe weather conditions may
have ventilators which can be closed to prevent the
ingress of water in such conditions).
On sea going vessels equipped with closeable
ventilators a warning notice shall be attached on or
near to all non-room sealed appliances. The
wording of the notice should state:
“WARNING - Open ventilator(s) before use”


8.9.1

Calculate the ventilation requirements in accordance
with Annex B of BS 5482-3.
Determine by measurement and calculation the
effective area of fixed ventilation.
Confirm that the effective area is divided equally
between high and low level vents.
No ventilator that can be closed without the use of tools
must be included in the calculations unless the ‘note’ in
Standard 8.9 applies.
Where ventilation deficiencies are assessed take the
action described in Appendix A.

 

APPENDIX A.
FAULTS REQUIRING A LPG WARNING NOTICE TO BE ISSUED
1. If a failure is recorded for any faults where the examiner judges
there is a possibility that continued use of the installation or
appliance could create a risk to persons or property the
following action must be taken.
2. Explain to the owner1 the risks involved in continued use of the
installation or appliance and the need for the fault(s) to be rectified
by a competent person.
3. Complete the BSS LPG Warning Notice (WN).
4. Hand 2 copies of the WN to the owner at the same time as the
owner’s copies of the BSS Certificate. Advise the owner to
leave one copy of the WN displayed in a prominent position on
board the boat.
 

Edit to add :

The ventilation 'requirements' became advisory (rather than compulsory) in the 2013 re-write of the BSS standards.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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4 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

If you have a sliding hatch, you will have well over 2 Sq In of gaps around just this one item.

My sliding hatch is in the roof, not the floor :giggles:

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On 09/08/2018 at 18:42, ditchcrawler said:

I would try my hardest to avoid putting vents in doors. Can you not fit a baffled system so you don't get a force 8 gale in the winter blowing through the boat? (that is when some people bung them up)

When I lived on a narrowboat my feet used to freeze in bed due to a single 4" sq vent in a hatch leading to a trad stern engine room. So it wasn't even a direct vent to the outside. On my widebeam I have two big vents in the doors at the bow and stern yet I never notice any draughts. I don't really understand it? I can only think that on the widebeam I'm not in such close proximity to the vents. 

IMG_20180810_203038_116.jpg

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The low level vents on my Piper boat are in the corners of the well deck, rather than the doors. They are in angled fillets between the front bulkhead and the hull sides and lead down in to the cabin bilge. This gives an indirect route, venting the bilge and meaning no draughts in to what is the bedroom  on this boat. I've made vents in the skirting along the cabin and under the fridge to distribute the low level ventilation along the boat.

 

Might be possible to retrofit something similar and have the vents in the bulkead, directing the air down to the floor, or bilge, rather than have a gale blowing in through the doors.

 

I thought this bit of hull construction was rather clever. A picture, showing a vent and also how long it has been since the cobwebs were last swept out.

 

Jen

IMG_20180813_081311.jpg

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On 10/08/2018 at 18:06, ditchcrawler said:

My sliding hatch is in the roof, not the floor :giggles:

Use the weed hatch as a vent, put the boat in dry dock for the BSS. Your boat must also have a pram hood fitted covering the rear deck.

:)

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