Loking for information on boating, please.

[reddwarf30]

Hi all, i have just retired and always fancied owning a small cabin cruiser but no idea how to go on. Do i need licensees? Any training? How much is mooring? Sen a few on sale for a couple of grand that's all i want to start off with. I live in Selby North Yorkshire so any help would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance.

[TheBiscuits]

Welcome to the forum.

 

You don't need any training or certificates yourself, but can get them if you want.

Your boat needs to have a safety certificate (BSS) a licence (annual fee) and insurance.

 

Moorings are usually charged by the foot, and vary depending on where they are.

 

Have you looked on here: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/getting-afloat

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, reddwarf30 said:

Hi all, i have just retired and always fancied owning a small cabin cruiser but no idea how to go on. Do i need licensees? Any training? How much is mooring? Sen a few on sale for a couple of grand that's all i want to start off with. I live in Selby North Yorkshire so any help would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance.

Have a read up on the Canal & River Trust website and work you way thru' the various links :

 

To summarise - 

Yes you need a boat licence

You need a Boat safety certificate (like a Car MOT) and carried out by a qualified examiner.

You need insurance, 3rd party is OK

Training is not a legal requirement but if this is your 1st foray into boating, and considering the area you are operating it may be advisable.

Moorings will cost anywhere between £1500 and £15,000 (depending on location and facilities offered)

 

If looking at a boat with a petrol engine (inboard or outboard) the Safety Test is much more severe because the risks with Petrol are much greater. Petrol is not easily obtained River / canal side and you will normally need to fetch cans from a local garage. To minimise the 3rd party damage in the event of a fire the law only allows to carry a maximum of 30 litres of petrol on your boat. (unless you have a proper fuel tank incorporated)

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/licensing-your-boat

Edited August 6, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

To minimise the 3rd party damage in the event of a fire the law only allows to carry a maximum of 30 litres of petrol on your boat.

 

A complete farce given the sheer amount of energy packed in to even one litre of petrol. 

 

Even a cupful of petrol is capable of a MAHOOSIVE explosion and fireball if ignited, and petrol vapour is heavy and will accumulate in the boat bilges if escaping. My advice is get a boat with a diesel engine!

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A complete farce given the sheer amount of energy packed in to even one litre of petrol. 

 

Even a cupful of petrol is capable of a MAHOOSIVE explosion and fireball if ignited, and petrol vapour is heavy and will accumulate in the boat bilges if escaping. My advice is get a boat with a diesel engine!

Agreed 100%

But, at the bottom end of the market £2,000 there will not be much choice.

 

We have had outboard (petrol) engine boats for about 30 years, as long as you are aware of the potential problems and act accordingly then that is all you can do to minimise risk.

(We still have OB engines on our tenders - the problem comes in where to store cans of petrol on boats not designed for petrol storage)

[Peter X]

For a small cabin cruiser kept up north I think I can reassure you that your annual mooring costs would be somewhere near the lower end of the 1,500 to 15,000 range Alan de Enfield gives. I don't doubt his figures, but to spend in the upper end of the range you either need to be in London (or various other hotspots, mostly down south), or you're going to need a bigger boat!

 

There is no legal requirement for training for a private leisure boat, that sort of paperwork only kicks in when you're commercial, but it's a good idea to read a bit about boat handling, e.g. start with the CRT link given by The Biscuits, via which you can reach the CRT "Boater's Handbook" https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/a-guide-to-boating/boaters-handbook. Also, it helps if you can find someone to go out with you on your first day to teach you the basics of steering the boat, using the ropes, mooring, working locks etc.

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Peter X said:

For a small cabin cruiser kept up north I think I can reassure you that your annual mooring costs would be somewhere near the lower end of the 1,500 to 15,000 range Alan de Enfield gives.

Indeed which is why I said it is based on location.

I am 'Up-North' and my GRP Cruiser mooring (at Newark) is about £1500, my other GRP boat (38 foot) in Hull cost £3600 per annum for a mooring.*

We don't know the OPs intentions - he could be looking to use it on the Ouse ONLY, in which case he would get a 40% reduction on his boat licence costs.

With the basic information, all we can do is to provide the extremes and wait for the OP to come back and say "this is my plan...…………...".

 

* Both moorings are 'leisure'

Edited August 6, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[reddwarf30]

How much is the annual boat license?

 

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, reddwarf30 said:

How much is the annual boat license?

 

Log on to the canal and river trust site. All the information you need is on there. ?

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, reddwarf30 said:

How much is the annual boat license?

 

Between £300 and £1000 it is charged by the length of the boat - the longer the boat, the more it costs.

C&RT are just in the process of implementing an additional charge by width, so wider boats pay more.

It also depends 'where you go', if you only use rivers then it costs 60% of the price of a 'canal & river' licence.

 

In the future Long, Fat boats will pay 25% more than long, thin boats, and short fat boats will pay less than Long thin boats..

a 9 foot wide GRP cruiser will cost you x % more than a 7 foot wide one

You really need to decide on what boat you want and then look up the costs on the C&RT website.

 

Moorings are normally charged by the 'foot' and many mooring providers also add on a surcharge for 'fat boats'.

 

When you come to paint the boat, companies normally charge by the foot.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Sea Dog]

5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A complete farce given the sheer amount of energy packed in to even one litre of petrol. 

 

Even a cupful of petrol is capable of a MAHOOSIVE explosion and fireball if ignited, and petrol vapour is heavy and will accumulate in the boat bilges if escaping. My advice is get a boat with a diesel engine!

Flash point of petrol is iirc about -43C; flash point of diesel is iirc something a little over +50C. Every time you pour petrol then, potentially explosive vapour is released to blow in any breeze and/or fall to the lowest point it can where it will accumulate and not disperse (that's never disperse) unless something else causes it to, so the explosive vapour can lurk unseen awaiting a spark or flame. I always regard that as a bad thing in the bilge of a boat, particularly an enclosed boat. In proper petrol powered boats, there's a bilge blower to purge such vapour; in an open boat, sensible precautions and mother nature mitigate the risk. Petrol engine and generator owners should be very conscious of this risk and have it in mind at all times, as should potential buyers, particularly when buying a cheap boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

In proper petrol powered boats, there's a bilge blower to purge such vapour;

Strangely enough both our Diesel boats have bilge blowers.

On one they are connected to the ignition and come on 'automatically' and run the whole time the ignition is switched on, (one of the worlds largest 'small boat' builders and 'standard' installation) on the other boat they are on a sperate switch that you can put on 5-10 minutes before starting the engines to evacuate the 'bowels of the ship'.

[Drayke]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Strangely enough both our Diesel boats have bilge blowers.

On one they are connected to the ignition and come on 'automatically' and run the whole time the ignition is switched on, (one of the worlds largest 'small boat' builders and 'standard' installation) on the other boat they are on a sperate switch that you can put on 5-10 minutes before starting the engines to evacuate the 'bowels of the ship'.

Never understood why they are on some boats fitted with diesel engines, maybe it sounds a sensible thing to have, or just a way to bump up the price.

[Momac]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Strangely enough both our Diesel boats have bilge blowers.

.................. on the other boat they are on a sperate switch that you can put on 5-10 minutes before starting the engines to evacuate the 'bowels of the ship'.

That's  the arrangement on my boat .

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, F DRAYKE said:

Never understood why they are on some boats fitted with diesel engines, maybe it sounds a sensible thing to have, or just a way to bump up the price.

I think I've had them (already fitted) on every diesel boat I've had EXCEPT the Narrowboats, - obviously NBs don't need a blower.

[Momac]

11 hours ago, reddwarf30 said:

Sen a few on sale for a couple of grand that's all i want to start off with. 

If it comes with a valid  Boat Safety Certificate ad an engine that works it may well be worth that , whatever it is.

 

 

 

[Drayke]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think I've had them (already fitted) on every diesel boat I've had EXCEPT the Narrowboats, - obviously NBs don't need a blower.

The engine room on a narrow boat isn’t much different to cruisers engine room, just smaller, so if they are needed on a cruiser then they should be needed on a narrow/widebeam.

[Chewbacka]

Beta marine now advise a blower may be required in their canal boat manual. “Adequate ventilation must be included with all installations. Installations can require a good quality reliable electric ventilation fan wired into the ignition switch to remove the hot air.”

 

 Don’t click on the link below if you don’t want 106 pages of manual to down load.

https://betamarine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/operators_manuals/1940-3060-KC-IOM-0316.pdf

[howardang]

44 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Beta marine now advise a blower may be required in their canal boat manual. “Adequate ventilation must be included with all installations. Installations can require a good quality reliable electric ventilation fan wired into the ignition switch to remove the hot air.”

 

 

 

 

There is definately a need for one of these near some of the threads on this forum at the moment!

 

Howard

[system 4-50]

Which brings me back to a question I have asked before without IIRC a definite answer, is it a good idea to insulate the inside (engine side) of skin tanks to keep the engine space cooler?

[Machpoint005]

27 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Which brings me back to a question I have asked before without IIRC a definite answer, is it a good idea to insulate the inside (engine side) of skin tanks to keep the engine space cooler?

How would that keep the engine space cooler? Heat is released into the engine space as well as into the coolant, and you want to get it out. A skin tank absorbs heat from the engine coolant and dissipates it into the canal (and the cauliflower).

[system 4-50]

6 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

How would that keep the engine space cooler? Heat is released into the engine space as well as into the coolant, and you want to get it out. A skin tank absorbs heat from the engine coolant and dissipates it into the canal (and the cauliflower).

How does the skin tank know not to radiate heat inwards as well as outwards? Or is the skin tank inner surface cooler than the engine space air?

[Phil Ambrose]

15 hours ago, F DRAYKE said:

Never understood why they are on some boats fitted with diesel engines, maybe it sounds a sensible thing to have, or just a way to bump up the price.

We have a bilge blower on a 60 footer the reason is I reckon to be not a concern about  fuel fumes but possible accumulations of LPG 

PHIL 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Phil Ambrose

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

We have a bilge blower on a 60 footer the reason is I reckon to be not a concern about  fuel fumes but possible accumulations of LPG 

PHIL 

 

How would LPG get into the engine 'ole ?

Surely with the new BSS requirements of having to remove the gas bottle and having the gas locker examined and tested in minute detail for signs of corrosion, if you have a BSS there should be no way gas can get into the engine 'ole.

[Phil Ambrose]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How would LPG get into the engine 'ole ?

Surely with the new BSS requirements of having to remove the gas bottle and having the gas locker examined and tested in minute detail for signs of corrosion, if you have a BSS there should be no way gas can get into the engine 'ole.

Huh, engine bilge is separate from the cabin bilge of course. Nobody specified any particular site for a bilge blower.

Phil 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Phil Ambrose