Shoreline 12v fridge - problem?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, philjw said:

I thought it was new and the OP tells us that it had been on its side so it would need to be left and run empty.

 

Post #1

 

2 hours ago, Johny London said:

I had to transport it and committed the cardinal sin of laying it down  So I suppose I'm clutching at straws in case anyone knows a trick or even if it might be worth a refrigeration engineer taking a look? I haven't asked Shoreline themselves yet. The fridge was unused, been stored a long time. Re gass or b*ggered? 

 

[philjw]

Would transporting the fridge on its side from place to place not have undone the settling caused by standing unused then?

[Johny London]

It was only on its side for an hour, slightly propped, but on this model one pipe comes out of either side of the compressor. On some both pipes are on one side so it is easier to keep the compressor below them, if you see what I mean. It stood for several days after being transported. I ran it for an hour or two, seemed to be cooling nicely so loaded it with what I had - not much actually. A few hours later Mr Tesco came so filled it up. My old one used to just bang down to temperature no questions asked. 

So, it seems likely then, that these fridges are just rubbish? Doesn't like anything in it, doesn't like being next to anything, can't cool wont cool! 

 

I would have thought if it was operating beyond its limits it would at least be trying to run all the time and getting very hot (it did run all the time on setting 5 but just "normal cycling" on setting 2). It isn't anything other than very slightly warm anywhere. Except the compressor - that is fairly hot but I've never had cause to feel one before.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Johny London

[Glynn]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Electric, Gas, or coal fired ?

Electric Aga fridge/freezer ?

[OldGoat]

43 minutes ago, Johny London said:

It was only on its side for an hour, slightly propped, but on this model one pipe comes out of either side of the compressor. On some both pipes are on one side so it is easier to keep the compressor below them, if you see what I mean. It stood for several days after being transported. I ran it for an hour or two, seemed to be cooling nicely so loaded it with what I had - not much actually. A few hours later Mr Tesco came so filled it up. My old one used to just bang down to temperature no questions asked. 

So, it seems likely then, that these fridges are just rubbish? Doesn't like anything in it, doesn't like being next to anything, can't cool wont cool! 

 

I would have thought if it was operating beyond its limits it would at least be trying to run all the time and getting very hot (it did run all the time on setting 5 but just "normal cycling" on setting 2). It isn't anything other than very slightly warm anywhere. Except the compressor - that is fairly hot but I've never had cause to feel one before.

On my Liebherr (not yet fitted) the compressor runs 'quite' hot to touch, rear coils warm in places, but it's empty (waiting for cool weather to fit it. On

our  tall domestic FF - side cooled - sides warm in places compressor hot - so on a heat test yours is OK

Nobody's mentioned the thermostat in the fridge. The numbers don't mean a lot. What happens if you turn it up?

What type of inverter are you using (too lazy to page back...) 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Nobody's mentioned the thermostat in the fridge. The numbers don't mean a lot. What happens if you turn it up?

That is all explained in the OP's OP

[OldGoat]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That is all explained in the OP's OP

Ah!

 

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, Johny London said:

Maybe I put too much stuff in it

On the contrary - a full fridge/freezer is a happy fridge/freezer. The cold contents stay cold and the fridge kicks in to keep the air around them at low temperature - less air = less work.

[Boater Sam]

To repeat, larder fridges do NOT get as cold as fridges with an ice box INSIDE the fridge.

 

But of course if its an old unit, even if unused, it could also be short of gas.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Boater Sam

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

To repeat, larder fridges do NOT get as cold as fridges with an ice box INSIDE the fridge.

 

 

Why would they not? 

 

Surely the optimum temperature to store chilled food is the same whatever type of fridge is being used. 

[Boater Sam]

I don't know why but when we were in the appliance business it was the case. Probably a cost issue?

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I don't know why but when we were in the appliance business it was the case. Probably a cost issue?

 

It's rather odd isn't it.

 

Trawling the depths of my memory I vaguely remember a previous discussion of this and I've an idea it is to do with larder style fridge freezers having two separate temperature spaces but still only one compressor. So the two compartments are not cooled independently but both at the same time and when one gets cooled, so does the other. When one is cool enough, the other gets no cooling power either. 

 

This leads me to wonder if the thermostat sensor is in the more important of the two chambers, the freezer. So cracking open the freezer door in really hot weather might force the compressor to run for a higher proportion of the time, thus cooling the fridge compartment more.

 

So the designers decide it is better to err on the side of having the fridge compartment a bit on the warm side rather than too cold, and freezing the eggs, milk and beer solid.

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

To repeat, larder fridges do NOT get as cold as fridges with an ice box INSIDE the fridge.

 

But of course if its an old unit, even if unused, it could also be short of gas.

Yes they do. I can get our larder fridge at home so cold that things at the back will freeze solid.

 

As for the OP's questions, we had a Shoreline fridge on our boat and it worked well. However, we made sure that there was a  gap of about 3 inches between the top of the fridge and the shelf above, which was certainy necessary judging by the heat that cam out of the top gap.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

This leads me to wonder if the thermostat sensor is in the more important of the two chambers, the freezer. So cracking open the freezer door in really hot weather might force the compressor to run for a higher proportion of the time, thus cooling the fridge compartment more

OP has already said that cranking the stat up to ‘11’ results in a constant compressor run but little coldness. 

 

It’s either lack of ventilation or it’s faulty. 

 

As the freezer works well I doubt it’s a ventilation issue. 

14 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Yes they do. I can get our larder fridge at home so cold that things at the back will freeze solid.

Ditto. 

[MtB]

26 minutes ago, WotEver said:

OP has already said that cranking the stat up to ‘11’ results in a constant compressor run but little coldness. 

 

It’s either lack of ventilation or it’s faulty. 

 

As the freezer works well I doubt it’s a ventilation issue. 

Ditto. 

 

 

Did you not read the quote I was replying to?

 

I was discussing with boater sam the effect where the cool compartment on fridge freezers in general are known to run a little warmer than standalone fridges.

[WotEver]

9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Did you not read the quote I was replying to?

 

I was discussing with boater sam the effect where the cool compartment on fridge freezers in general are known to run a little warmer than standalone fridges.

Yes i did. You wondered if ‘causing the compressor to run for a greater proportion of the time’ would increase the coldness in the fridge. He’s already tried running the compressor for 100% of the time and the fridge doesn’t get any colder. That was the point I was making. 

[Sea Dog]

Pull the unit out into the cabin and run it there for 24 hours. This will eliminate the unknown factor of ventilation and enable you to see whether the fridge now works properly (in which case you need to improve the fridge space vent) or, if it doesn't, is faulty.

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

Pull the unit out into the cabin and run it there for 24 hours. This will eliminate the unknown factor of ventilation and enable you to see whether the fridge now works properly (in which case you need to improve the fridge space vent) or, if it doesn't, is faulty.

Verily a good and sensible suggestion - go for it. Only minor inconvenience and no financial cost!

I'm not on the boat so I can't check whether there's a separate temperature sensor in the freezer compartment - I suspect not. I do know that if I set the stat: up too much the fridge section freezes, indeed even at normal settings the evaporator plate will frees and accumulate ice. However it's an elderly design ( = does what the consumer wants).

FWIW at home we have a tall larder fridge  and ditto FF. BOTH can't set  the fridge section less than 6 deg: C. I suspect that restriction helps the designers specify the smallest compressor that they can get away with.

 

[Johny London]

I suppose with a fridge/freezer, they design it so that you'll have enough scope to get the fridge temperature to your liking, while the freezer bit will still stay in spec (ie pretty cold). I've had fridge freezers before and never had to really think about it. 

In my case, there is clearly a problem. Much googling suggests a regass could work - but then, there must be a slight leak in the first place. That or lying it down did for it

Thanks for all the suggestions though.

[cuthound]

Leaving fridges and freezers (and car air conditioning units) unused is a really bad idea.

 

The seals on the compressor dry out if the compressor is not run periodically, as they rely on oil mixed with the refridgerant to lubricate them, and without lubrication the refrigerant gas leaks out.

 

I suggest the OP contacts a fridge engineer who will re-gas the fridge freezer.

[Johny London]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. So if I did re gas, most likely the seals will have lubed up a bit and will hold the next lot of gas? I will speak to Shoreline and a fridge engineer this week. As I speak, it's managing 9c - better than ever. I wonder if that's just the result of it being on for 3 days of cooling or if actually a bit of use is lubing its seals and clearing its pipes? Though I don't expect it's found itself any gas. I'll see what progress I can make this week and will of course report back.

[David Schweizer]

29 minutes ago, Johny London said:

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. So if I did re gas, most likely the seals will have lubed up a bit and will hold the next lot of gas? I will speak to Shoreline and a fridge engineer this week. As I speak, it's managing 9c - better than ever. I wonder if that's just the result of it being on for 3 days of cooling or if actually a bit of use is lubing its seals and clearing its pipes? Though I don't expect it's found itself any gas. I'll see what progress I can make this week and will of course report back.

I wish you luck. After several discussions with them, I had to threaten legal action before they agreed to fit a supression shield which was requirement of EU product legislation.

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, Johny London said:

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. So if I did re gas, most likely the seals will have lubed up a bit and will hold the next lot of gas? I will speak to Shoreline and a fridge engineer this week. As I speak, it's managing 9c - better than ever. I wonder if that's just the result of it being on for 3 days of cooling or if actually a bit of use is lubing its seals and clearing its pipes? Though I don't expect it's found itself any gas. I'll see what progress I can make this week and will of course report back.

 

Yes, one of the symptoms of low refrigerant gas is an inability to cool properly. Another sign is the compressor running almost continuously and getting hot.

[smileypete]

On 05/08/2018 at 15:03, cuthound said:

Leaving fridges and freezers (and car air conditioning units) unused is a really bad idea.

 

The seals on the compressor dry out if the compressor is not run periodically, as they rely on oil mixed with the refridgerant to lubricate them, and without lubrication the refrigerant gas leaks out.

 

I suggest the OP contacts a fridge engineer who will re-gas the fridge freezer.

Sorry but fridge compressors have almost zero in common with car air con compressors, other than they compress refrigerant gas. Where are the mechanical seals on a domestic fridge compressor? ?

 

People often mis-diagnoise the need for regassing fridges as it's the first 'expert conclusion' they mistakenly jump to, but it's pretty rare in practice and there's plenty other possibilities.

 

Back to the OPs question, a look in the manual reveals the following statements:

 

http://www.shoreline-marine.co.uk/admin/document_library/RRInstructions_BD35ONLY.v21_150618.pdf

 

'Note - These 12/24 Volt DC freezers are designed to store pre-frozen foods, not to freeze down large quantities of fresh foods. Expect the motor compressor to run for very long periods without cutting off if you attempt to freeze quantities of fresh foods.

 

Caution: If the room temperature starts to rise above +25ºc the motor compressor will begin to run for longer periods and consequently require more battery power. Room temperatures above +30ºc could result in correct storage temperatures not being maintained inside the appliance. '

 

The second para to me implies that when you reach temps above 30°C in high summer, the compressor may well need to run 24/7...

 

 

 

 

[WotEver]

39 minutes ago, smileypete said:

The second para to me implies that when you reach temps above 30°C in high summer, the compressor may well need to run 24/7...

And still not get the temp below 10C...