Remote control / fly by wire - I know it can be done!

[RLWP]

16 minutes ago, jimxtc said:

 

Thank you Richard, that is va very good point, I am so used to getting off at the back!

A centre line is a useful and often neglected bit of equipment

 

The only issue taking one off from the front is using it to strap a boat to a halt. You can't push a rope, so you'd have to take it back to a bollard, not use the one at your feet where you step off

 

It's something you would get used to 

 

Richard

[jimxtc]

13 minutes ago, RLWP said:

How are you on potty training?

Is that something you feel you need?

[RLWP]

3 minutes ago, jimxtc said:

Is that something you feel you need?

I'm worried about you....

[nicknorman]

Obviously I don't know what form you visual impairment takes (I have heard of macular degeneration and understand the theory but can't imagine what it is actually like) but I am just wondering if a front steering position will actually be helpful to you? As has been said, narrowboats are controlled from the back because they steer from the back - ie the back moves in response to the tiller, not the front other than indirectly. It would be a shame to spend a lot of money on a front steering position (which is perfectly feasible) only to find that it was really difficult to use. I have fairly good eyesight but I think I would find it very difficult to steer a narrowboat from the front. What I am saying is that perhaps you should try out a front steering position boat first, before spending money on it, to ensure it actually helps you in the way you think it will.

[jimxtc]

15 minutes ago, RLWP said:

A centre line is a useful and often neglected bit of equipment

 

The only issue taking one off from the front is using it to strap a boat to a halt. You can't push a rope, so you'd have to take it back to a bollard, not use the one at your feet where you step off

 

It's something you would get used to 

 

Richard

 

[bizzard]

Forward control.

[jimxtc]

Thank you Richard, you input has been very helpful.  I am sorry but I am struggling to cope with this forum with just speak output from my iPad so will wait until I get home and on my PC.  I am on a hire boat on the Oxford canal next week with friends.

[TheBiscuits]

 

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

As has been said, narrowboats are controlled from the back because they steer from the back - ie the back moves in response to the tiller, not the front other than indirectly. It would be a shame to spend a lot of money on a front steering position (which is perfectly feasible) only to find that it was really difficult to use. I have fairly good eyesight but I think I would find it very difficult to steer a narrowboat from the front.

For goodness sake don't take up gliding or flying helicopters then!

[Guest]

Not getting this aversion to front steering at all......

 

Turn wheel left, boat goes left but kicks it's backside right.

 

Turn wheel right, boat goes right but kicks it's backside left.

 

Simple.

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

For goodness sake don't take up gliding or flying helicopters then!

Don't worry, I have no intention of taking up gliding or flying helicopters. Bearing in mind "taking up" means starting to learn to fly them!

Just now, MJG said:

Not getting this aversion to front steering at all......

 

Turn wheel left, boat goes left but kicks it's backside right.

 

Turn wheel right, boat goes right but kicks it's backside left.

 

Simple.

Obviously. But whilst you are sitting at the front, there is 50 or more feet of boat behind you swinging out in response to steering inputs, which is entirely out of sight.

 

It just seems to me that in response to limited visual acuity, the proposal is to have a set up with less visual cues than normal. I can't quite see how it would be helpful. But as I said, I don't understand the nature of visual defect from a practical point of view. Therefore my suggestion was merely to be sure that it would in fact be helpful. Perhaps the OP has already done this, we don't know.

[bizzard]

And another.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Don't worry, I have no intention of taking up gliding or flying helicopters. Bearing in mind "taking up" means starting to learn to fly them!

Obviously. But whilst you are sitting at the front, there is 50 or more feet of boat behind you swinging out in response to steering inputs, which is entirely out of sight.

 

It just seems to me that in response to limited visual acuity, the proposal is to have a set up with less visual cues than normal. I can't quite see how it would be helpful. But as I said, I don't understand the nature of visual defect from a practical point of view. Therefore my suggestion was merely to be sure that it would in fact be helpful. Perhaps the OP has already done this, we don't know.

There is the option of looking over your shoulder.

[howardang]

11 minutes ago, MJG said:

There is the option of looking over your shoulder.

Yes there is but a) if the control position is in the front cockpit you would have to stick your head over one side to look back while for the other side it would be more difficult and b) if the control position is inside the boat you woul have to stick your head out of a window, otherwise you won't have any visibility astern. I would think that most boats wouldn't have an opening window big enough so yet more cost.

 

There are many vessels that steer from near the bow, big and not so big - Bizzard  has posted a photo of what looks like a Laker for example- but they have all been designed properly to allow them to be able to do it safely.  This idea on a narrow boat ha.s the potential for being much more trouble than its worth.

 

Howard

[MHS]

Hi Jimxtc 

 

As Macular Degeneration affects your central vision, do you know what your V/A is? This is your vision aided with glasses. To legally drive a car this needs to be 6/12. 

 

I dont know if there’s a required standard to satisfy the terms of a CRT licence. I think your insurance company should be informed, as non-disclosure may affect a claim. 

 

I wouldnt have thought a front steering boat will be any easier for you to cope with. The one we saw a few years ago, with the couple steering sat in the bow cockpit was snaking all over the cut. 

[rusty69]

There is a narrowboat near us that is frontish and rear steering, so they do exist, as already said. It looks like this (dartline), but no obvious exit at the front excluding the sliding hatch. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by rusty69

[Ray T]

[NB Esk]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

There is a narrowboat near us that is frontish and rear steering, so they do exist, as already said. It looks like this (dartline), but no obvious exit at the front excluding the sliding hatch. 

Think that ones a Frobisher? sp.  Like to see how that works with the flue in the slidey bit.

 

I wouldn't want to steer a narrow boat from the front, you'll need to spend half the time looking behind.  Folk do need to glance behind but where you're going is more important.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, NB Esk said:

Think that ones a Frobisher? sp.  Like to see how that works with the flue in the slidey bit.

 

I wouldn't want to steer a narrow boat from the front, you'll need to spend half the time looking behind.  Folk do need to glance behind but where you're going is more important.

Could be, its very similar to the dartline. 

 

Spose review cameras could work. 

[NB Esk]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Could be, its very similar to the dartline. 

 

Spose review cameras could work. 

Ah, hang on, I could be wrong.  I always understood that Frobisher was the type of boat.

 

Yes, that's an idea, rear view camera.  Can't help thinking it would be an odd sensation but probably get used to it ?

[Tony Brooks]

Although only around 35 to 42ft long we had a number of forward control hire cruisers when I was at the yard and I can't say it posed any particular problems when in lock cuts or entering & leaving locks. You just get used to it. One class even had a central steering position, that is central cross ways, not central fore & aft, so there was no chance of looking backwards out of a window. None of these boast seemed to suffer any more back end damage than those with more traditional steering positions.

 

I have seen such boats with rear view mirrors but they would  probably be very vulnerable in locks on a narrow boat (the gunwales on the boats I am on about are about 12" or more wide so the hull protects the mirror). Today that would be little problem because a reversing camera would do the job of the mirror and arguably better.

 

FWIW these boats tended to have rudders getting on for narrowboat size and they all used a push-pull steering cable like a very stout 33C control cable. These cables produced fewer maintenance problems than the Whitlock & Broads specials  type of mechanical systems. The worst thing was when someone reversed the rudder into something hard before we had a chance to fit very strong rudder stops. That tended to bend the end of the cable. I am not so sure about hydraulic systems with the possibility of leaks and then losing steering but if maintained they should be OK. The gear and throttle controls were just very long 33C cables.

[jimxtc]

Thank you all fro your responses. It would seem that what I was thinking about has already been done which is reassuring.  I think I will post a wanted ad for such about and see what comes out of the woodwork!  

[roland elsdon]

There are any number of inspection launches on canal with both wheel forward and tiller rear steer. As oddities you may well benefit as demand is probably low. I think some are hydraulic , i saw one last week with a ram going to the rudder.

in the 80s we towed our butty up the grand union with a 10 ft beam wheel steer wide beam on one trip. That was interesting .

with your description of macular degeneration i suspect going into locks would be far easier steering from the front than the rear, as the blind spots would interfere less. Of course i am making a huge supposition as only you are aware of your own eyesight.

the downsight of wheel steer is lack of feel through the tiller, but given practice im sure you will master the art.

a quick google search of wheel steer hire boats brought up lee valley narrowboats who it appears can rent out a forward steer hire boat by the day. Maybe a quick hire might be an investment. 

 

Good luck

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

the downsight of wheel steer is lack of feel through the tiller, but given practice im sure you will master the art.

But the 10s of 1000s of 'real boat shaped boats' (yachts, cruisers etc) that have wheel steering seem to survive quite well.

 

Both of my current boats have 'wheels'

 

 

[Ray T]

Wyvern Shipping Co. Ltd's Ocean Princess has a steering position at both ends.

 

https://www.canalholidays.co.uk/home?page=home&page=about-us/ocean-princess-cruise

[rusty69]

33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But the 10s of 1000s of 'real boat shaped boats' (yachts, cruisers etc) that have wheel steering seem to survive quite well.

 

Both of my current boats have 'wheels'

 

 

Whealy?