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Horse boating


ElaineWalker

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2 hours ago, nebulae said:

My next door neighbour"s grandfather bought a farm in what is now Central Milton Keynes,to rest/ breed boat horses. He had a rubbish contract in London(dayboats?) I think the family name was Clarkson.

That's interesting - I'd be interested to find out more. 

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There's a short BFI clip of Jack Roberts with 'Sally' towing and talking briefly about the wooden trip boat IONA:

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-canal-bargee-1966-online

 

Another excellent amateur cine film here. Along the Staffs and Worcs in 1959. A Western Region day boat is horse drawn, and Cahrlie Atkins appears with what is probably MENDIP.

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-canal-holiday-1959-online

Edited by Derek R.
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On 04/08/2018 at 16:35, Derek R. said:

There's a short BFI clip of Jack Roberts with 'Sally' towing and talking briefly about the wooden trip boat IONA:

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-canal-bargee-1966-online

 

Another excellent amateur cine film here. Along the Staffs and Worcs in 1959. A Western Region day boat is horse drawn, and Cahrlie Atkins appears with what is probably MENDIP.

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-canal-holiday-1959-online

Jack Roberts was involved with a horse drawn "Hostel" type holiday boat I believe Harry Arnold had some involvement IIRC they had 2 boats ( could be mistaken)There was also a company operating in the late 60's a horse drawn boat "Hostel craft" I towed them around the BCN a week view the canal architecture can't remember the exact problem with their horse but remember their crew saying it was a good thing they were not reliant on horse power due to the state of the tow path on some of the lesser used bits As I remember the "Curly Wurly " being pretty "Naff"

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11 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Jack Roberts was involved with a horse drawn "Hostel" type holiday boat I believe Harry Arnold had some involvement IIRC they had 2 boats ( could be mistaken)There was also a company operating in the late 60's a horse drawn boat "Hostel craft" I towed them around the BCN a week view the canal architecture can't remember the exact problem with their horse but remember their crew saying it was a good thing they were not reliant on horse power due to the state of the tow path on some of the lesser used bits As I remember the "Curly Wurly " being pretty "Naff"

I've read the Jack Roberts book - it's interesting seeing all the boats and people I'm coming across start to link together. Thankyou.

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On 27/07/2018 at 13:11, ElaineWalker said:

I'm not sure how to reply to specific messages but I'm replying to Pete - I think ex-army horses found their way into many new roles.

 

I think Joe Skinner's Dolly was an ex-army mule (I'd have to check the book but I'm pretty sure).

 

As to why they'd be bred specially, maybe they weren't but many types and breeds were bred for specific roles, such as mining, pulling a carriage rather than a cart - as you say above, they needed to be small but strong so anyone who had a good horse, might decide to breed the next generation.

 

It's just a thought at this stage - Darwin uses the breeding of horses for specific roles as an example of human intervention in the evolutionary process so it was well-established by then.

 

But that's the nature of research - I have to pin down evidence, rather than assume that things were a certain way because that seems most likely to me.

 

I was told by someone who I consider an expert that horses made an easy transition from the cart to the narrowboat - but I've also come across an interview from a horse-boater that said ex-cart horses didn't make good towing horses at all, because the boat didn't respond to the pull in the same way. Once I've found out as much as I can, I look at the balance to form any sort of conclusion (which is often still 'we can't be sure'!).

 

Hi Elaine,

 

To reply to a specific post:-At the bottom of each post you will see "quote". If you wish to reply to a specific post click "Quote" and you will see the post with a space underneath for you to reply to that specific post. Once done, press "Submit Reply" and it will post your reply in the thread.

 

Howard 

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Just now, howardang said:

Hi Elaine,

 

To reply to a specific post:-At the bottom of each post you will see "quote". If you wish to reply to a specific post click "Quote" and you will see the post with a space underneath for you to reply to that specific post. Once done, press "Submit Reply" and it will post your reply in the thread.

 

Howard 

Thankyou!

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Rose skinner used to say that the mule “had a good position in the army” I always thought of it as possibly a sargent horse.

Arther Bray told me that his father dealt in horses and often he would fine his horse had been swapped overnight. One was so big that it had to duck under some of the bridges and to do this he pulled its tail. A lady walking over a bridge saw him do this and he was reported to the police and rspca. He told them of the problem and asked them to get it under the bridge, no joy so they went away.

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1 hour ago, X Alan W said:

Jack Roberts was involved with a horse drawn "Hostel" type holiday boat I believe Harry Arnold had some involvement IIRC they had 2 boats ( could be mistaken)There was also a company operating in the late 60's a horse drawn boat "Hostel craft" I towed them around the BCN a week view the canal architecture can't remember the exact problem with their horse but remember their crew saying it was a good thing they were not reliant on horse power due to the state of the tow path on some of the lesser used bits As I remember the "Curly Wurly " being pretty "Naff"

The horse drawn narrow beam 'hostel boats' were ASTON. MARGARET and PAMELA - with the the first two being wooden and the latter being iron. PAMELA is still extant as a motorised house boat, but I have been around long enough to remember it being horse drawn :captain:

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I had a trip up the Welsh canal in 1962 - the boat we were on had engine problems so when Jack Roberts overtook us with the "Margaret" he hung us on behind. He said then that well-meaning people were always calling out the RSPCA thinking that it was cruelty to make the horse pull a boat - what would they have said about a loaded pair of one-horse boats! My Dad was no stranger to horse boats, he had dealings with them some 27 years before that...……...

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2 hours ago, archie57 said:

I had a trip up the Welsh canal in 1962 - the boat we were on had engine problems so when Jack Roberts overtook us with the "Margaret" he hung us on behind. He said then that well-meaning people were always calling out the RSPCA thinking that it was cruelty to make the horse pull a boat - what would they have said about a loaded pair of one-horse boats! My Dad was no stranger to horse boats, he had dealings with them some 27 years before that...……...

That's interesting - I guess that not that long earlier no-one would have given it a second thought. 

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1 minute ago, sultan derocco said:

I seem to remember that there is (was?) a photograph of a boat with a pair of donkeys in the Queens Head pub on the Montgomery .

That's the first mention of donkeys outside archive material - I shall follow that up by asking the pub - thankyou!

8 hours ago, Dav and Pen said:

Rose skinner used to say that the mule “had a good position in the army” I always thought of it as possibly a sargent horse.

Arther Bray told me that his father dealt in horses and often he would fine his horse had been swapped overnight. One was so big that it had to duck under some of the bridges and to do this he pulled its tail. A lady walking over a bridge saw him do this and he was reported to the police and rspca. He told them of the problem and asked them to get it under the bridge, no joy so they went away.

I like the idea that the mule may have worked her way up the ranks! 

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On 27/07/2018 at 13:45, reg said:

That sort of item could make an interesting chapter in itself, what makes a good canal horse and how we're they handled and looked after. 

Take a cart horse and put it straight on the end of a rope and it will rear-up, step back and more than likely fall in the cut.  As mentioned, they are used to getting an immediate reaction, which you don't get from a boat.  Training will, over not too long a time, teach them though.  It's quite a sight seeing a seasoned horse, plant all four feet squarely, and lean forward, waiting for the boat to react before taking a first step.

Edited by RockSodem
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Hello Elaine. I’d recommend reading  “Upgate Downgate” by Ernest Clarke, one of the last working boatmen on the Chesterfield Canal. There’s lots of references to the type of horses used, techniques of working, feeding and stabling etc. The Chesterfield was unusual as motor boats were never used at all, right up to the end of commercial carrying. I’m not sure if it’s still in print but you’re welcome to borrow my copy if you can’t find one.

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5 hours ago, noddyboater said:

Hello Elaine. I’d recommend reading  “Upgate Downgate” by Ernest Clarke, one of the last working boatmen on the Chesterfield Canal. There’s lots of references to the type of horses used, techniques of working, feeding and stabling etc. The Chesterfield was unusual as motor boats were never used at all, right up to the end of commercial carrying. I’m not sure if it’s still in print but you’re welcome to borrow my copy if you can’t find one.

Thankyou both - not heard of that one before and I've found it on Amazon now - great!

5 hours ago, philjw said:

Amazon has copies from 26p. They call it Upgate and Downgate

Upgate and Downgate

 

On 08/08/2018 at 09:27, RockSodem said:

Take a cart horse and put it straight on the end of a rope and it will rear-up, step back and more than likely fall in the cut.  As mentioned, they are used to getting an immediate reaction, which you don't get from a boat.  Training will, over not too long a time, teach them though.  It's quite a sight seeing a seasoned horse, plant all four feet squarely, and lean forward, waiting for the boat to react before taking a first step.

There's a sequence of photos in the archive at Ellesmere Port which shows the horse taking up the strain on the boat and leaning into the collar 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm planning to be at Alvecote on Sunday - if anyone who's been in touch will be there, it would be good to make contact!

 

I've had several interviews and lots of emails and I've met up with Sue Day so things are moving well - I really appreciate everyone who has responded. 

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Mid 60's if my memory is correct .The horse was used by a family member on the Hanwell thicket before the tractor came along. 

The field behind was where the owner kept all his horse's for hire. I remember feeding them apples from the cottage garden sadly all that is left there now is parts of the wall. The horse's about 20 of them became surplus in time & I have sad memories of visiting family here & running out back to feed them to find the field empty they had all been walked down the road to the Southall horse market .They told me they had all gone to new homes but years later I knew the true goings on when a horse went to Southall market .

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You may find this book some help it covers several sorts of trades using horse's it also has a great section covering my great uncle Alan who always gave me a polished half crown into my left hand for being left handed . Wish I would have asked why a half crown  & why it was polished (anyone any clues or answers ) Nanny like most boatpeople would give sixpence but Grandad would often slip a half crown into my hand even after I was 21 .The last  one I still have as he  gave it to 

me the morning he went to the great cut in the sky

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I think pressing a silver coin into your hand was a sign of wishing you good luck. That's how I heard it.

 

There's a few horse images and sketches, in "Tales from the Old Inland Waterways" by Euan Corrie (published by David & Charles). Included are images of horses being ferried across the River Trent. Not specific to horses, it covers all the trades associated with waterways and the people that were employed in them telling their stories.

Edited by Derek R.
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6 hours ago, magnetman said:

Is that the lower lock of Norwood top locks ?

Yes this is or was the cottage at Norwood lower lock . the horse was originally from the jobs dairy down the road but got himself sacked because he would grab the milk bottles in his mouth a chuck them .As you can see us kids thought it good to line the bottles up for him to do his party trick. Magnetman do you know about the outside stairs & a hole cut into the lounge roof to make an indoor stairs ?

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