Registering for school without an address

[Mac10]

Hello, looking to hear ONLY from live aboard families with school aged children please and no one else.  Those people with first hand experience of applying for a place in a school.

 

I would like a home mooring but at present I don't have one; I would like to register for secondary school next year 2019, it would be my hope that we have a mooring with residential status by then, but if not, a home mooring of some kind.  Worst case scenario, I have an 11mth mooring with no address.  

 

Can anyone tell me things I need to know re applying to a school without a registered address?  How you got on?  Anything you know now that you wish you had known then? What are our rights?  Did you have a fight?  Did you get refused; on what grounds?  How did you get in?  Logic tells me it can be done as every child has the right to an education, but it also tells me that the systems computers aren't set up for alternative living like this. 

 

It is my understanding that schools must provide spaces for traveller children, who also do not have an address, do these policies and procedures help in anyway? Although, I would most likely be looking to stay in one place, if possible, until she completes secondary.

 

I'm aware home schooling could be an option. 

 

Thanks to anyone in advance for posting, I realise this is a controversal topic.

[Alan de Enfield]

I have experience of arranging this and have copies of the Government's policies and application requirements, and how to get your child registered at their 'main school' and then as you move around the country how they transfer for a few days / weeks to their subsidiary schools.

 

Unfortunately as you are so adamant about who can reply (TYPED OUT IN CAPITALS = SHOUTING) & as I am not a full time liveaboard I am unable to provide you with the information.

 

What I will point out that for 'Itinerants' (No fixed address) to register then the following applies :

 

b) the parent/carer is engaged in a trade or business of such a nature that requires them to • travel from place to place.

 

Good luck.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[koukouvagia]

5 hours ago, Mac10 said:

Hello, looking to hear ONLY from live aboard families with school aged children please and no one else.  Those people with first hand experience of applying for a place in a school.

 

I don’t meet your criteria, I'm afraid.  However, as a school governor and chairman of the Admissions Committee, I do know from a school’s perspective how the system works.  

In brief my advice would be:

(a) Study the Admissions Policies of the schools you are interested in.  If, as I suspect, there is nothing that covers your situation, write to the Chair of Governors.  (As a result of a request from a boat-dwelling family, we changed our admissions policy to include the nearby boating community) in our catchment area.

(b) Apply in the normal way, but expect not to be offered a place.  You will then be free to appeal to a Tribunal which may be more sympathetic to your plight.  You will have to demonstrate a special “social need”.

 

 

eta.  If you have a permanent mooring, it shouldn't be a problem.  Other criteria such as distance from the school will come into play.  NB some admissions policies ask for a postcode to determine distance.

Edited July 27, 2018 by koukouvagia

[Tom and Bex]

Not school as such so possibly slightly different, but we had no problems with our daughter attending the local pre school. 

 

We do have a permanent mooring, although not residential and no postal address. We used the local post office as a contact postal address, and they needed the address of our mooring so gave them the nearest postcode we could find, our boat name, and the street name of our mooring. We had to make it quite clear to them not to send post to that address which they were quite happy with.

 

So far no problems at all. Apparently they needed the mooring address in "case of emergency" but any communication has correctly been sent to the post office. 

 

Tom 

[mrsmelly]

9 hours ago, Mac10 said:

Hello, looking to hear ONLY from live aboard families with school aged children please and no one else.  Those people with first hand experience of applying for a place in a school.

 

I would like a home mooring but at present I don't have one; I would like to register for secondary school next year 2019, it would be my hope that we have a mooring with residential status by then, but if not, a home mooring of some kind.  Worst case scenario, I have an 11mth mooring with no address.  

 

Can anyone tell me things I need to know re applying to a school without a registered address?  How you got on?  Anything you know now that you wish you had known then? What are our rights?  Did you have a fight?  Did you get refused; on what grounds?  How did you get in?  Logic tells me it can be done as every child has the right to an education, but it also tells me that the systems computers aren't set up for alternative living like this. 

 

It is my understanding that schools must provide spaces for traveller children, who also do not have an address, do these policies and procedures help in anyway? Although, I would most likely be looking to stay in one place, if possible, until she completes secondary.

 

I'm aware home schooling could be an option. 

 

Thanks to anyone in advance for posting, I realise this is a controversal topic.

Another reply here from a naughty forumite who does not fit your criteria of people allowed to reply!!!!. All I have to say is please do not home school your sprog/sprogs as its a false environment and they need to socialise with others as part of their schooling. They will not be leaving school and  spending their lives segregated from others.

Edited July 27, 2018 by mrsmelly

[zenataomm]

Although I am a member of this public forum I object to another member dictating to me if I may or may not reply. 

Likewise what may be controversial to you could well be bread & butter to others. so it is with no regret on my part that I am unable to share my experience with you.

 

However I shall ask you if you often shoot yourself in the foot?

[Movin' on]

10 hours ago, Mac10 said:

Hello, looking to hear ONLY from live aboard families with school aged children please and no one else.  Those people with first hand experience of applying for a place in a school.

 

I would like a home mooring but at present I don't have one; I would like to register for secondary school next year 2019, it would be my hope that we have a mooring with residential status by then, but if not, a home mooring of some kind.  Worst case scenario, I have an 11mth mooring with no address.  

 

Can anyone tell me things I need to know re applying to a school without a registered address?  How you got on?  Anything you know now that you wish you had known then? What are our rights?  Did you have a fight?  Did you get refused; on what grounds?  How did you get in?  Logic tells me it can be done as every child has the right to an education, but it also tells me that the systems computers aren't set up for alternative living like this. 

 

It is my understanding that schools must provide spaces for traveller children, who also do not have an address, do these policies and procedures help in anyway? Although, I would most likely be looking to stay in one place, if possible, until she completes secondary.

 

I'm aware home schooling could be an option. 

 

Thanks to anyone in advance for posting, I realise this is a controversal topic.

Well at least you have the right attitude - keep it up you’ll go far

[Mac10]

To koukouvagia, thank you for posting your thoughts anyway, some sound advice here - will keep. 

 

To Tom and Bex, so glad to read common sense prevailed! Thanks for posting. 

[Alan de Enfield]

I've had a car accident which has resulted in me losing my left leg, I need a Solicitor, but will only work with one who has suffered the same type of accident, I don't care if he is good at the job, or his professional qualifications, or proven successes, it's his 'life experiences' that matter, his ability to represent me and help maximise my compensation claim is irrelevant.

 

Anyone know a Solicitor who lost his left leg in a car accident ?

 

Do you realise how daft that makes you look ?

 

How do you know that one of the above posters is not a full-time advisor on 'Roma & Traveller' Educational matters ?

 

This advice gives information for parents and carers of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller children and those who work with them in schools and local authorities.
It is important for schools and local authorities to understand the culture of children and young people from Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities as this reduces the risk of underachievement or exclusion of the pupil. The best opportunities are found when parents/carers, schools and local authorities understand each other and plan and work together in the interest of the child.
The advice explains what the law says and describes some good ideas about school attendance for Gypsy, Roma and Traveller pupils.
For the purposes of this advice only, the term ‘Gypsy, Roma and Traveller families’ means:
a) 
i. Gypsies inc. Romanies, Romanichals, Welsh Gypsies/Kaale, Scottish
Gypsies/Travellers;

ii. Irish Travellers, Minceir;
iii. Roma from Eastern and Central Europe;
iv. Showmen (Fairground people);
v. Circus people;
vi. Boat Travellers/Bargees;
vii. New Travellers or New Age Travellers; and

b) the parent/carer is engaged in a trade or business of such a nature that requires them to • travel from place to place.
This advice on school attendance only applies to families who meet the criteria at both a) and b) above

[koukouvagia]

I suspect the OP wanted to avoid well meaning, but basically wrong advice.  The whole subject is a minefield and I would strongly advise the OP to seek proper legal advice rather than rely on forum pundits like me.

I understood that the OP was contemplating sending a child/children to school from a permanent or settled mooring, in which case the guidance offered to Travellers and Bargees, won't apply.  Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick.

 

However, here are a few more thoughts.

 

Every school has by law to have a published Admissions Policy.  A school or academy, is not allowed to make arbitrary rules to exclude or include categories of pupils.  The guidelines which schools must follow are set out in this document. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/389388/School_Admissions_Code_2014_-_19_Dec.pdf

If you suspect that the school has not got in place a lawful Admissions Policy, there are ways to appeal.

A school must abide by its policy.  If an applicant for a place does not meet the admissions criteria, then he/she will not be offered a place.  In cases where schools are oversubscribed there have to be clearly defined criteria for deciding which children to admit. Usually this is based on distance from the home to the school.  This is where a postcoded address is vital. 

 

The advice given in post #4 is irrelevant because nurseries are not obliged to follow the statutory Guidance Code mentioned above. Also, schools don’t usually care about permanent addresses for the purpose of contacting parents.  These days parents are always contacted by text/phone/email, both for passing on routine information and for emergencies.

 

This next bit is only relevant to boat dwellers with children of nursery age.  

You may well find that it is easy to get a child into a nursery attached to a primary school. Nurseries are very often keen to fill the places to secure funding and may have a fairly lax, non statutory admissions policy.

The problem arises when the child is ready to enter the Reception Class. Parents often assume that because their child has a nursery place that they will automatically have a place in the primary school.  This is not the case. Every child entering Reception must fulfil the admissions criteria as set out in the Admissions Policy and parents cannot argue that the nursery place automatically guarantees a Reception place.

I have known many disappointed parents who have a child in the nursery but are not offered a place in the Reception Class because they do not satisfy the admissions criteria for the primary school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mac10]

I'm really just looking for the nearest school to where we are moored; as long as it is not in special measures, ideally it would have a 'good' rating.  If I apply to the nearest school and get refused, can I assume this is only because it is over subscribed?  Therefore if I apply to schools that are not over subscribed we would get a place?  And if the nearest school is over subscribed, isn't it then the local authority who need to allocate us another school?  And pick up the travelling costs?  

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

I suspect the OP wanted to avoid well meaning, but basically wrong advice.  The whole subject is a minefield and I would strongly advise the OP to seek proper legal advice rather than rely on forum pundits like me.

I understood that the OP was contemplating sending a child/children to school from a permanent or settled mooring, in which case the guidance offered to Travellers and Bargees, won't apply.  Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick. 

 

 

The OP is suggesting he aims to get a permanent mooring, but then goes onto say he understands that councils are oblige to provide for 'traveller children'. If he has a mooring then he is not a traveller.

 

11 hours ago, Mac10 said:

I would like a home mooring but at present I don't have one; ………….

 

It is my understanding that schools must provide spaces for traveller children, who also do not have an address, ……………..

 

He needs to (as you suggest) contact the correct department / people and correctly advise of his position - Moorer (non-traveller) or CCer (traveller)

 

[koukouvagia]

If I apply to the nearest school and get refused, can I assume this is only because it is over subscribed?  Yes, but you will have to list several schools and the LA will try to assign you a place in one of them.  I can't remember the latest figures but around 85% get a place in one of their chosen schools.  Faith schools (esp. RC schools may require church attendance).

 

Therefore if I apply to schools that are not over subscribed we would get a place?  Of course, you have no means of knowing from year to year which schools are going to be oversubscribed. You would be very unlucky not to be offered one of your chosen schools.  NB some LAs publish the numbers of applicants and available places.  It'd be worth exploring this further.  Some inner city schools are in a densely packed area.  Some years families wishing to come to the school I'm involved with have to live with 500 feet of the school.  The following year this distance may be greater or smaller.  No one can forecast it.  It's a horrible system.  Some LAs allocate places on a lottery system.  

 

And if the nearest school is over subscribed, isn't it then the local authority who need to allocate us another school?  And pick up the travelling costs.  Yes, it is the LA's responsibility to find you a school but you'll have to ask the LA what its policy is on travel costs.    

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by koukouvagia

[Mac10]

My concern is, if we are nearest to an over subscribed school and we don't have an address with a postcode, how do we proceed, how do we even register if one is required to have a postal address?  At the end of the day, we will be living in the catchment area, my daughter has a right to a state education and it is always better for the child if they can get there on foot or use the school bus service provided.  

 

I feel our first priority is to secure a residential or home mooring and school will then follow, therefore it would be helpful to hear from those who have experienced this madness and successfully navigated a way through it - especially at over subscribed schools. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Mac10

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

And if the nearest school is over subscribed, isn't it then the local authority who need to allocate us another school?  And pick up the travelling costs.  Yes, it is the LA's responsibility to find you a school but you'll have to ask the LA what its policy is on travel costs. 

In our region the LA provides transport, or covers the cost of Transport, or provides a Bus-Pass if the School is outside a 3-mile radius from the applicants residence.

the 3 miles is taken as a true radius, not a 'road distance'. and being very rural, that 3 miles can actually mean up to around 5 miles actual distance.

 

I currently have one 11 year old girl who has to walk 2 miles along country lanes with no footpath, to get to a 'normal' bus-stop (not a school bus) where she is picked up & then transported the remaining 10 miles to School.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

Lots of good advice as long as the OP can get a permanent mooring but if not the he would be best advised start looking at and understanding the ramifications of what CRT has to say. It may or may not be doable.

[koukouvagia]

22 minutes ago, Mac10 said:

My concern is, if we are nearest to an over subscribed school and we don't have an address with a postcode, how do we proceed, how do we even register if one is required to have a postal address?    

All is not lost if you don't have a postcode.  In central London new blocks of flats are going up all the time and sometimes the distance has to be calculated by other means because a postcode has not yet been assigned to the address.  Not all schools use postcodes, but grid references.  The online school admissions policy will tell you how it's done.

Your first port of call should be the Headteacher.  Explain your circumstances.  Provided you have a fixed mooring, even for a year, you should be OK.  Ask what happens if you have to move to another location? 

If it's a LA school you might like to ask for a chat with one of the School Admissions Officers.  If it's a CofE school ask to speak to someone for advice at the Diocesan Board of Education.

Best of luck.  You'll find a school!

 

 

eta.  Look carefully at the cut off dates for applying.  You need to get all your paperwork and any evidence all assembled in good time.  You'd be surprised how many parents/carers miss the deadline.  The system is pretty unforgiving.  

If you need to make representations to a church school, write to the Chair of Governors, because the governors, not the LA are the Admissions Authority.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by koukouvagia

[Mac10]

Yes good point Tony - I would like to hear from families who don't have a permanent mooring accessing state school - how did you manage the admission hoop?  It sounds like it's do-able on a 12mth mooring as the bare minimum on application then - not ideal but maybe a start - or it's home schooling or traveller rights then yes?  Which isn't really for us unless it becomes our only option for a while.  Or if it's a school that is not over subscribed no one bats an eye lid - interesting.