Dirty Water Sump

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, philjw said:

My guess is that since it is always necessary to pump the shower, fitters avoid extra skin fittings by using a sump box and joining in the washbasin drain.

Yes  always necessary to pump the shower but never necessary to have a sump box to do it as has been discussed countless time on here before. In fact I would suggest that fitting a sump box for a shower shows just how little the company cares abut its customers. Gulpers or even Water Puppies do not need a sump box but in the latter case an easily accessible strainer may be a good idea..

[BWM]

1 hour ago, Jennifer McM said:

Many thanks for this, we're quite handy, but it does help to know what we're doing. You've explained it very well! 

 

Can't understand why the 'sump' was necessary in the first place. It's confused us no end.

 

Probably when we get to Braunston we'll get stuck in, as picking up bits and tools will be easier. Thanks again ?

Good point, thank you ?

Thank you, points to be aware of. Appreciate your help Tony ?

Quite often these are fitted due to the height of the sink relative to the waterline, on tug style boats, etc. 

  If you have a choice it is worth situating the outlet just below the rubbing strake as it offers some protection, bronze fittings are expensive but seem considerably tougher and less brittle. 

[Tony Brooks]

I am far from clear where you would get true bronze fittings from these days except possibly Davey. When I was doing mine all the "bronze" fittings I looked at were actually aluminium bronze so in my book a form of brass. That ws what I used.

[BWM]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am far from clear where you would get true bronze fittings from these days except possibly Davey. When I was doing mine all the "bronze" fittings I looked at were actually aluminium bronze so in my book a form of brass. That ws what I used.

As I remember, I think the last one I purchased was from asap or possibly force 4. Definitely proper bronze but around £20 for a 3/4" .

[Momac]

14 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

  fitting a sump box for a shower shows just how little the company cares abut its customers

Why?

 

I admit I have had  issues with my sump box arrangement on two occasions with the only expense  needing a new float switch recently (in a 15 year old boat).  Hardly a constant problem.

 

Presumably the gulper pump would need to be switched on manually while the sump box pump is activated by a float switch so it is automatic. 

 

I don't think the choice of installation by a boat builder has anything to do with a company not caring about its customers .

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

Why?

 

I admit I have had  issues with my sump box arrangement on two occasions with the only expense  needing a new float switch recently (in a 15 year old boat).  Hardly a constant problem.

 

Presumably the gulper pump would need to be switched on manually while the sump box pump is activated by a float switch so it is automatic. 

 

I don't think the choice of installation by a boat builder has anything to do with a company not caring about its customers .

Well when I was doing work for customers I would never fit anything that was known to be the least reliable/more trouble prone than any of the alternative systems. AS threads on here have shown for years you can make the Gulper automatic except I would not because it adds complication. In fact you should really turn your sump pump off when not in use in case the thing decides to run 24/7 & flatten batteries. 

 

I say fitting known trouble prone systems without consulting the customer does indicate a lack of care or knowledge. If the customer DEMANDS a switch free installation then as I say there are alternatives but they are asking for all they will eventually get. Just wait for the time your switch fails and you fill the bilge with dirty water with all than entails for drying out, rust and potential smell.

[Guest]

We suffered a sump box/float switched pump for years. When we moved aboard full time I took this out, used the pump to make a dog-shower and fitted a Whale Gulper in its place. I would never go back to a sump pump now. I agree with others who say it is best to discharge the kitchen sink directly overboard  via a skin fitting if possible.
I expect it is possible to make a Gulper switch automatically but we haven't bothered.

[koukouvagia]

A couple of tips:

Make a removable panel in the lining so that if you ever need to access e.g. to tighten the skin fitting from the inside, it's easy.

 

 

Also have an over-ride switch if you have a sump arrangement in case the float gets stuck. The Gulper pump has a very distinctive loud sound.  If this isn't happening, you know that the sump may be in danger of overflowing and so you need to switch to manual.

 

An occasional dose of caustic soda down the plughole keeps everything clean and troublefree.

 

[Momac]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

wait for the time your switch fails and you fill the bilge with dirty water with all than entails for drying out, rust and potential smell.

My float switch did fail this year. There was one showers worth of water in the bilge . If there had been more water the bilge pump would have dealt with it. Just shower waste so not really dirty and easy to remove. No rust as the boat is GRP .

I think you are making a big deal out if a little thing.

 

 

 

 

[rusty69]

A boat bilge half full of shower water wasn't fun when it happened on our boat when we first got it. 

[koukouvagia]

6 minutes ago, MartynG said:

 

I think you are making a big deal out if a little thing.

May I respectfully disagree?  I fitted a manual switch after the float stuck and the sump overflowed into the bilges.  Not only did I have to deal with a rather stinky effluent, but the drying out process took weeks. 

 

 

[Jennifer McM]

Lots of really helpful advice here, thanks everyone very much.

 

Think I've worked out why the kitchen sink water is exited through the sump. When we bought the boat it had a full size Belfast sink, since we've had the boat we've had a complete new galley fitted. The carpenter who did the galley did say it was unusual to have the waste pipe going through the sump, we didn't think much about that until this thread. We think the reason being was the waste pipe would have been much lower in the Belfast sink, and probably too far to the waterline for a gravity outlet.

 

The other good thing for getting rid of the Belfast sink is that the boat sits a lot better in the water.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Jennifer McM said:

 

The other good thing for getting rid of the Belfast sink is that the boat sits a lot better in the water

Probably saves water too. 

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, MartynG said:

My float switch did fail this year. There was one showers worth of water in the bilge . If there had been more water the bilge pump would have dealt with it. Just shower waste so not really dirty and easy to remove. No rust as the boat is GRP .

I think you are making a big deal out if a little thing.

 

 

 

 

Ah - so you are equating your experience with that which typical narrow boaters suffer where more often than not there is no accommodation bilge bilge pump and the bilge is filled with ballast that tends to trap water/damp against the steel hull. Even if painted most paint is slightly porous so damp can still get to the steel. In fact a few steel narrow boats use ordinary builders ballast or pea shingle for ballast.

 

Interesting that you do not use soap or shower gel type products because if you did then their residue could easily allow a build up of microbes in the bilge and that may well give rise to smell.

 

Now we all know that you are extrapolating your experience and your boat's design to  all the other boats, steel narrow boats being the majority on here I suspect. I contend that you do not have enough experience to make a sound judgement and you are very much trying to talk down a real problem.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[Jennifer McM]

Fixed! Pleased to say.

 

Thank you everyone for your advice. As we're on our first boat, we didn't have experience of other systems.

 

We didn't do it ourselves in the end, though, we took it into a boatyard yesterday, where they drilled two holes (one for the bathroom basin, and one for the kitchen sink). A steel tube was weld (welded doesn't sound right?) into the 'hole', and the kitchen waste pipe was attached to the tube. 

 

The bathroom wasn't so simple as the new pipe/drain (which is just 10in above the waterline) is higher than the basin drain. So as normal, one job creates another job, though a new bathroom basin surround/cabinet has been on the cards.

 

The shower tray has now been directly plumbed into the original gulper, using the original hole/skin.

 

This work took the boatyard a full day - it probably would have taken us weeks! 

 

I'm really delighted to have the worry of the sump overflowing taken away, and of course the horrible job of degreasing the sump every six weeks or so. Plus I'll be saving the environment, and our budget from having to fund so many paper kitchen rolls.

 

Thank again ?- Another success for the forum.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Jennifer McM

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Jennifer McM said:

The shower tray has now been directly plumbed into the original gulper, using the original hole/skin. 

Our gulper is coming up to 20 years old soon,with full live aboard use.In that time I have cleaned it out once. I reckon it still has another couple of years left in it too.

 

Hopefully yours will last well too!

[Jennifer McM]

31 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Our gulper is coming up to 20 years old soon,with full live aboard use.In that time I have cleaned it out once. I reckon it still has another couple of years left in it too.

 

Hopefully yours will last well too!

Hope so, it should have an easier life from now on, instead of 'gulping' everytime we wash up, or wash our hands, it'll only be used now when we shower. 

[blackrose]

59 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

Fixed! Pleased to say.

 

Thank you everyone for your advice. As we're on our first boat, we didn't have experience of other systems.

 

We didn't do it ourselves in the end, though, we took it into a boatyard yesterday, where they drilled two holes (one for the bathroom basin, and one for the kitchen sink). A steel tube was weld (welded doesn't sound right?) into the 'hole', and the kitchen waste pipe was attached to the tube. 

 

The bathroom wasn't so simple as the new pipe/drain (which is just 10in above the waterline) is higher than the basin drain. So as normal, one job creates another job, though a new bathroom basin surround/cabinet has been on the cards.

 

The shower tray has now been directly plumbed into the original gulper, using the original hole/skin.

 

This work took the boatyard a full day - it probably would have taken us weeks! 

 

I'm really delighted to have the worry of the sump overflowing taken away, and of course the horrible job of degreasing the sump every six weeks or so. Plus I'll be saving the environment, and our budget from having to fund so many paper kitchen rolls.

 

Thank again ?- Another success for the forum.

 

 

Glad you got it sorted. Yes, "welded" is the correct simple past and past participle of the verb weld.

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Jennifer McM said:

Fixed! Pleased to say.

 

 

The bathroom wasn't so simple as the new pipe/drain (which is just 10in above the waterline) is higher than the basin drain. So as normal, one job creates another job, though a new bathroom basin surround/cabinet has been on the cards.

 

 

Pity they didn't put it a couple of inches lower for you. Remember you dont need a P or S Trap on the bottom of the basin, would that get you enough height ?

Edited August 18, 2018 by ditchcrawler
spilling

[Jennifer McM]

48 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Pity they didn't put it a couple of inches lower for you. Remember you dont need a P or S Trap on the bottom of the basin, would that get you enough height ?

The waste is quite a bit lower than the new pipe, but that's no big deal. I've not been too keen on the chrome pedestal since we bought the boat, and moving it to put in the new pipe has shown that corrosion is starting to bite. The space could be better utilised by having a corner cupboard, with the blue bowl/sink on top, and there's plenty of room for the sink to be raised. Hopefully the sink and taps can be salvaged to save some money. In the meantime, the sink drains into a bucket - just have to remember to empty it after use ?  

 

 

[Stilllearning]

21 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

The waste is quite a bit lower than the new pipe, but that's no big deal. I've not been too keen on the chrome pedestal since we bought the boat, and moving it to put in the new pipe has shown that corrosion is starting to bite. The space could be better utilised by having a corner cupboard, with the blue bowl/sink on top, and there's plenty of room for the sink to be raised. Hopefully the sink and taps can be salvaged to save some money. In the meantime, the sink drains into a bucket - just have to remember to empty it after use ?  

 

 

A neat looking bit of pipe work, and a very smart basin, which as you say, will easily sit on top of a new corner unit, with ample drop to the outlet.

My only caveat on these new (to you) systems is that as there is no trap, U bend or sump etc, do take care what gets dropped down the plug hole! Small items of value could get deposited in the cut all too easily.

[Jennifer McM]

6 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

A neat looking bit of pipe work, and a very smart basin, which as you say, will easily sit on top of a new corner unit, with ample drop to the outlet.

My only caveat on these new (to you) systems is that as there is no trap, U bend or sump etc, do take care what gets dropped down the plug hole! Small items of value could get deposited in the cut all too easily.

That's a very good point ?

[ahmed11]

It was informative