Rank these boat builders!

[mark99]

The above direct poster is spot on

 

But I would answer the straight question as :

 

Les Allen

CTS

Colecraft

 

And get out and find what you like in the gut!

Edited July 24, 2018 by mark99

[David Mack]

I think I said this in one of your other threads, but at the price level you are looking, then current condition and how well a boat has been looked after is far more important than the name of the builder.

Also, be aware that 'boatbuilder' is a rather non specific term. Some companies only build steel shells, some companies only fit out shells built by others and some do both. Volume builders like Liverpool Boats sold boats they had fitted out themselves and also sold shells to fit out companies and to DIYers. And when a boat is advertised as built by so and so, that could be either the shell builder or the fitter outer. And some fitter outers would only buy shells in from one builder, others would use a range of suppliers. So a name doesn't necessarily tell you much at all.

[mark99]

To repeat the theme, get out and look.

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, mark99 said:

To repeat the theme, get out and look.

To be fair to the OP though, it is quite hard to evaluate a boat when you don’t really know what you are looking for. Starting with an idea of names to favour and those to avoid, is helpful.

[jetzi]

15 minutes ago, David Mack said:

at the price level you are looking, then current condition and how well a boat has been looked after is far more important than the name of the builder.

The data supports your view.

There seems to be absolutely no relationship between the number of votes a builder got in the poll (i.e. the builders' reputation among forum members) and the asking price of the boat.

 

 

It's possible that the conclusion we came to in the other thread is wrong (that manufacturer is the most / an important factor in a boat's value). It could be that the asking prices don't accurately reflect her value - but without actual sale prices I'm not sure how else to compare them. Or it could be that the forum members' opinions of those manufacturers aren't widely held! Maybe this will change as more votes come in?

 

9 minutes ago, mark99 said:

To repeat the theme, get out and look. 

We certainly are and will continue doing so. We've looked at six boats so far and we've got more viewings lined up. I was warned off one of those boats because it wasn't built by a reputable manufacturer. So like @nicknorman  says it's helpful to get an idea of names to favour and names to avoid.

 

[mark99]

Option anxiety.

[Rickent]

13 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Thanks Stewart, this is all good advice. We have been to see six boats so far, only one of which was a 70 foot, and honestly all but the 70' made us strongly doubt our dream as we didn't think we'd cope in such a tight living space. 

 

This makes me wonder if the op is really cut out for living on a narrowboat, if the living space is too tight on anything but a 70 footer then I think this is set up for failure. The biggest thing about living on a narrowboat is having to get used to limited space, we live on a 45ft boat and manage just fine. If the op is already obsessing about space then a fat boat could be an option ( not for 30k though) or stay land based.

[Athy]

Perhaps "taking into consideration" rather than "obsessing about"? It is surely an important consideration, and one upon which he is right to ponder.

[Rickent]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Perhaps "taking into consideration" rather than "obsessing about"? It is surely an important consideration, and one upon which he is right to ponder.

You are right, maybe obsessing was the wrong word, and yes, space is a big consideration but one of the big adjustments that has to be made is learning to live in a limited amount of space, if this is going to be a problem then maybe a narrowboat is not for them.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Rickent
.

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, Rickent said:

You are right, maybe obsessing was the wrong word, and yes, space is a big consideration but one of the big adjustments that has to be made is learning to live in a limited amount of space, if this is going to be a problem then maybe a narrowboat is not for them.

I fully hear what you're saying. I have never lived on a boat, but I suspect that once one does get aboard, one finds ways of adjusting to the amount of space available.

[Richard10002]

Our boat shell was built by Gary Gorton. Surveyor knew the name and said he built a good boat. A few people here had heard of him, but he isn't a name that features. We would have bought the boat if it had been built by Fred Blogs  

[Rickent]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

I fully hear what you're saying. I have never lived on a boat, but I suspect that once one does get aboard, one finds ways of adjusting to the amount of space available.

Absolutely, when we were looking for a boat, we didn't fixate on size, we just looked for a boat that suited us, and we found it. We soon got used to limited space and now it is not an issue.

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Our boat shell was built by Gary Gorton. Surveyor knew the name and said he built a good boat. A few people here had heard of him, but he isn't a name that features. We would have bought the boat if it had been built by Fred Blogs  

 

Excellent boats. Noted for their vertical candy-twisted handrails at the front, on sides of the cabin.

[Athy]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 Noted for their vertical candy-twisted handrails at the front, on sides of the cabin.

Had Mr. Gorton previously worked on showmen's traction engines?

[Tonka]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Excellent boats. Noted for their vertical candy-twisted handrails at the front, on sides of the cabin.

Think you will find they were built by Marque boat builders

[Robbo]

Unless having a new boat built the names won't really mean anything on the condition a boat is in now...

 

With the boats I have I bought on, in this order as well..

 

1) how pretty it looks, - I've got to live with it so I want something my heart bought not a shopping list of things.   As long as the shape is nice I can go onto the 2nd item.  You have to look through the paint job, as that's just cosmetics we looking at bone structure here.

2) hull condition - goes without saying, might be pretty, but if it's full of holes. 

3) layout of the boat.  - Can I live with the layout?   Some stuff you may be able to move, but some of major items may need a total fitout or not at all like the engine room.

4) condition of the interior.   Can I live with the current condition?

 

Other stuff like if it has a 3Kw inverter, megawatts of solar, 12v fridge are just add on items - they don't increase the value of the boat.

 

Size of the boat wasn't as important to me as it kinda comes up in number 3.   So I wouldn't just look at 70ft boats, but from 50ft upwards.   If you find viewing the smaller boats not to your liking due to "Can I live with the layout" then you know, but if you've never viewed 50ft boats you'll never know if they were right.   Also you need to look at many boats, you'll then be better to judge condition/price/size yourself.

[frahkn]

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Our boat shell was built by Gary Gorton. Surveyor knew the name and said he built a good boat. A few people here had heard of him, but he isn't a name that features. We would have bought the boat if it had been built by Fred Blogs  

The broker, our surveyor and as it later turned out, all sorts of odd folk knew of Orion and said their boats were good. I had never heard of them but loved the look of the boat and how it handled.

 

I still love the boat despite some of the eccentricities which I have since discovered.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, frahkn said:

The broker, our surveyor and as it later turned out, all sorts of odd folk knew of Orion and said their boats were good. I had never heard of them but loved the look of the boat and how it handled.

 

I still love the boat despite some of the eccentricities which I have since discovered.

 

I have an Orion boat too. I've always loved the look of them. 

 

The main eccentricity is their penchant for hiding the engine away somewhere stoopid, like in back of a kitchen cupboard or under the shower tray. Richard the boss there seemed to see it as some sort of game... he told me he finds it quite fun to take someone onto one of their boats and invite them to try and find the engine!

 

Mine doesn't suffer from this though. The engine can be found after a brief search, smack in the middle of the ten foot engine room

[TheBiscuits]

29 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Other stuff like if it has a 3Kw inverter, megawatts of solar, 12v fridge are just add on items - they don't increase the value of the boat.

True, but if you then have to add them on a limited budget you are going to be in for a shock!

 

I tend to go 

 

1. Shell condition - this is the boat itself, and I don't really care who built it originally.

 

2. Interior fitout spec/condition - how much work will it need to suit me.

 

3. Engine condition/type - I will want to move the boat, so working is good

 

4. Addon toys (Inverter, charger, fridge, solar, cooker) - As above, these cost a lot to add or replace if not present. 

[BEngo]

The problem with the OP's question was that the list addressed both hull builders and fitters out.  The quality of the fit out , particularly with regard to systems and safety items,  is as important as the build-standards of the hull.

 

Roger Farrington/Les Allen/CTS etc. etc.  will build you an A1/ good looking/  super swimmer hull, but if it is fitted out by a bunch of guys working from the nearest hitching rail it will probably be nothing like as good a boat as one that has been fitted out by someone who knows what he is doing and works to high standards.  Some things can be changed economically but others can't without a major refit.

 

N

[Rickent]

1 hour ago, ivan&alice said:

...unless we get a 70 footer?

Why would you have to be comfortable living on a 45' boat in order to be comfortable living on a 70' boat?

You're right though, after a year or so it may turn out that we're not cut out for it, and in that case we're going to need to be able to sell our experiment and not lose too much money (since we'll have to pay back our finance for the purchase using the proceeds of the sale). That's why I am trying to make sure that we get a good deal and we don't just buy whichever boat "feels right" (although feeling right is, also, important).

We're aware that living on a boat can be very, very hard. My wife did it for a year on a rented boat permanently moored. And as you may have noticed we're not exactly flush so our rather initerant land-based life usually consists of a small studio flat and two large suitcases of "stuff".

Still, I don't think that's any reason not to make it as comfortable as possible, to give it our best shot. And that starts with buying the biggest boat that meets all our other needs.

Not saying that you won't have a great life aboard and yes , you should buy the biggest boat within your budget, nothing wrong with that but if a 70 ft is a must then you may end up disappointed. Don't discount a well laid out boat which is smaller as living space varies massively depending on layout. Good luck with your search, with a bit of luck you will find the right boat, and as others have said, you will know when you have found "the one".

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Rickent said:

Don't discount a well laid out boat which is smaller as living space varies massively depending on layout.

 

Can't stress this highly enough. 

 

I've been on 45ft boats that seem as spacious as 55ft boats inside. 

 

And another point. Don't discount boats with a proper separate engine room. A boat with the engine ten feet forward of the helm and with a door you can close is a TOTALLY different experience to steer from a boat with the engine droning away right under your feet. And the engine room is useful for a million other things as well as giving decent access to the engine for maintenance and repairs. 

[Rickent]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Can't stress this highly enough. 

 

I've been on 45ft boats that seem as spacious as 55ft boats inside. 

 

And another point. Don't discount boats with a proper separate engine room. A boat with the engine ten feet forward of the helm and with a door you can close is a TOTALLY different experience to steer from a boat with the engine droning away right under your feet. And the engine room is useful for a million other things as well as giving decent access to the engine for maintenance and repairs. 

I would have loved a boat with a proper engine room but the good lady was horrified about having a boat with the engine inside.

[jetzi]

Thanks @Robbo and @TheBiscuits for the breakdown of things to look for, really helpful. It's interesting that the builder doesn't feature because on this thread everyone seemed adamant that the manufacturer of the boat is of utmost importance.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Not saying that you won't have a great life aboard and yes , you should buy the biggest boat within your budget, nothing wrong with that but if a 70 ft is a must then you may end up disappointed. Don't discount a well laid out boat which is smaller as living space varies massively depending on layout. Good luck with your search, with a bit of luck you will find the right boat, and as others have said, you will know when you have found "the one". 

I think it's important to realise what you're getting into

It's my impression that there is no price difference between a 57' and a 70'. Seems that the unpopularity of the 70' boats keep the prices down?  I'm aware that they'll cost 23% more to run as they are 23% more boat, but cash flow isn't our problem - upfront cash is the limiting factor, because that's all the banks will give us.

We'll keep looking at a few smaller boats as we go to marinas around the country, but since at the moment I havre a list of 30 boats 68'-70' on the market that we need to get through it's actually helpful to be able to narrow down our search a bit. If we can de-prioritise some disreputable manufacturers that will also help.

 

19 minutes ago, BEngo said:

The problem with the OP's question was that the list addressed both hull builders and fitters out.  The quality of the fit out , particularly with regard to systems and safety items,  is as important as the build-standards of the hull.

Agreed - I think this is where the layout comes into it, because things like waste water are going to be hard (expensive) to move. I feel confident that we can make quite a lot of improvements and modifications to the fit out to suit us (moving a cabin wall). So I'm mainly concerned with the hull, because that's something we won't be able to change.

10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

15 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Don't discount a well laid out boat which is smaller as living space varies massively depending on layout.

 

Can't stress this highly enough. 

 

I've been on 45ft boats that seem as spacious as 55ft boats inside. 

 

And another point. Don't discount boats with a proper separate engine room.

Yes, I think the layout is a large part of "feeling right" about a boat.

 

Interesting that you mention the virtues of a separate engine room @Mike the Boilerman and @Rickent, the thing we liked the most about Joan was that there was a spacious engine room that was a totally separate area from the boat. It makes such a difference to have a completely separate area. The downside is the bulkhead sealing off the bedroom that may cause us BSS failures.

 

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Interesting that you mention the virtues of a separate engine room @Mike the Boilerman and @Rickent, the thing we liked the most about Joan was that there was a spacious engine room that was a totally separate area from the boat. It makes such a difference to have a completely separate area. The downside is the bulkhead sealing off the bedroom that may cause us BSS failures.

 

From the photo of the bedroom I can't see why you couldn't fit either a full door or an emergency exit hatch through to the engine room - although it does depend what is on the other side.  As a minimum all you need is an opening with an area of 0.18 m2  able to accommodate a 380mm diameter circle. Or a "break glass" hammer and a label next to the window would probably do as well.

 

The BSS requirements for private boats are at https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf and the relevant section is this: