Rank these boat builders!

[Robbo]

25 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Which house is that then? 

 

He said house B 

[70liveaboard]

26 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I don't intend to moor it, but the £5K seems to come from those who keep a spreadsheet.  I assume they don't include personal costs. 

Yeah, I'm not sure how the spreadsheet idea works, although for the individual perhaps it does. But not as a guide to living on a boat for others, as their spreadsheet would, presumably, be different.

Where is the 5k one listed/posted ? or did someone just put 5k for their own experience ?

Edited August 18, 2018 by 70liveaboard

[Big Bob W]

2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Buying a boat is not a sensible thing to do.  If you want to be sensible, buy a house, or a van or something.  With a boat, you go and see one and fall hopelessly in love with it.  You immediately start picturing all the adventures you could have.  Then, and only then, do you look for good reasons not to buy it.  If you don't find enough reasons, you buy it.  Simple.

^^^ So True!

 

Ditch the spreadsheets and get out there looking. End of.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Big Bob W said:

^^^ So True!

 

Ditch the spreadsheets and get out there looking. End of.

 

I agree.  I’m not sure why 70ft has suddenly focussed on nbs being an ‘investment’. They  obviously aren’t. The running costs are crippling and rip any imagined profit out of ownership over pretty much any time span one chooses to calculate it over.  

 

I’m my experience the way to money out on narrowboats is to buy cheap and sell expensive, immediately. One way is take them north to south. 

[Robbo]

Finding a ideal boat is like finding an ideal partner, they don’t exist.  You can make all the lists in the world but the one you’ll end up with will be the one where your eyes light up as soon as you saw.   They may smoke a bit, and have few rust spots but you’ll still love and want.

 

After saying that, I really like the bow on mine!  Stern not bad either.

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Robbo

[Richard10002]

6 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

I'll give you mine of 40yrs in the industry. But it will only be my view.

In your previous, long, patronising, and contrary, post, you boasted about having always done well with boats... With 40 years in the industry, one would hope that this would be a given. I have been in the property business for over 30 years, and have always done well with houses... it would be surprising if I hadn’t.

 

You also seem to repeatedly avoid giving any positive help.

 

Which are these quiet unassuming boats that are the best made, and will also hold their value best, or even increase, and how does the ordinary Joe, with little/no years in the industry, identify them - the answer to this could be very helpful to the OP.

 

His spreadsheet on names and prices is as much use as a chocolate fire guard... (it might accidentally lead him to the right answer, but for completely the wrong reasons).

[70liveaboard]

48 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree.  I’m not sure why 70ft has suddenly focussed on nbs being an ‘investment’. They  obviously aren’t. The running costs are crippling and rip any imagined profit out of ownership over pretty much any time span one chooses to calculate it over.  

 

I’m my experience the way to money out on narrowboats is to buy cheap and sell expensive, immediately. One way is take them north to south. 

No I'm not saying they are an investment, as in, bricks and mortar. But invest in your time in the boat, do your boating and have it cost as little as possible. That is what I was aiming at.

No boat will be without its costs for running. But I was pointing out that many seem to think certain 'high end' names are a good buy, whereas others aren't so good. I was just saying the same can be said for many other builders, not just the 'perceived' higher end builders. In-fact I see it happen more with other builders boats.

 

So no, certainly don't buy as an investment like a house. But an investment in your use of the boat. I would much rather know the boat I have will hold its price, or as near too as possible when I come to sell, or pass on to someone else.

I wouldn't advise anyone to buy OTT, its very easy with boats to do it, but it just backfires. Look at the first picture above £149k, in 30yrs whoever sells it then, will need to put it up for, not much short of a quarter of a million to keep up with the second picture (I put up, percentage wise). Not that 30yrs means anything to anyone, just an example that is there. Its one of Stans hulls (old Liverpool boats, well a joint effort lets say).

Edited August 18, 2018 by 70liveaboard

[70liveaboard]

11 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

In your previous, long, patronising, and contrary, post, you boasted about having always done well with boats... With 40 years in the industry, one would hope that this would be a given. I have been in the property business for over 30 years, and have always done well with houses... it would be surprising if I hadn’t.

 

You also seem to repeatedly avoid giving any positive help.

 

Which are these quiet unassuming boats that are the best made, and will also hold their value best, or even increase, and how does the ordinary Joe, with little/no years in the industry, identify them - the answer to this could be very helpful to the OP.

 

His spreadsheet on names and prices is as much use as a chocolate fire guard... (it might accidentally lead him to the right answer, but for completely the wrong reasons).

Sorry, but you haven't followed any of the previous posts I have made for this particular OP.

Did you read my responce to the other thread he made regards a 60ft ?

 

It would be better to read prior to assuming and no, I don't boast anything, just practical when it comes to boats, well and many other things in life.

Edited August 18, 2018 by 70liveaboard

[roland elsdon]

In 1996 i bought a house in 2004  i sold it for two and a half times what i paid or it. Over that period i paid council tax and standing charges i also owned boat i paid moorings and licence. When i sold the boat i felt lucky i got what i paid for it, less improvements. lucky the house was my ‘residence’ so no cap gains

[Richard10002]

10 minutes ago, 70liveaboard said:

Sorry, but you haven't followed any of the previous posts I have made for this particular OP.

Did you read my responce to the other thread he made regards a 60ft ?

 

It would be better to read prior to assuming and no, I don't boast anything, just practical when it comes to boats, well and many other things in life.

You’ve criticised what I have said about you, despite the fact that it is my perception. I agree I haven’t read every post, but I have read many, and your style seems to repeat itself. If I have missed some exceptions, I’m sorry.

 

Having criticised my post, you have completely avoided giving the OP the information which you suggest you have - contributing nicely to your claim that this forum provides little of use to anyone... unless I’ve got that wrong as well

[70liveaboard]

1 minute ago, Richard10002 said:

You’ve criticised what I have said about you, despite the fact that it is my perception. I agree I haven’t read every post, but I have read many, and your style seems to repeat itself. If I have missed some exceptions, I’m sorry.

 

Having criticised my post, you have completely avoided giving the OP the information which you suggest you have - contributing nicely to your claim that this forum provides little of use to anyone... unless I’ve got that wrong as well

What style is that ?

And yes, the things I said 'is' my advice.

 

The OP will not find a boat without getting out there and talking face to face with people. Plus know what the budget is, it started at £30k I posted about that. Went to £44k, I gave my opinion on that too.

He is onto spreadsheets now, that leaves me behind.

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

I find living on a boat significantly cheaper than living in a house. B

I don't see how you can.boats are far more expensive to live in than houses for a multitude of reasons.

[Stewart Kirby]

Avoiding the arguments about the spreadsheet and which builder is better etc when it comes down to it you gotta see boats in the flesh. If you like it pore over your spreadsheets but when it comes down to it looking at ads on the duck or wherever is only a pointer. I remember when looking for our first boat in 1997 looking at online ads and, gulp, Waterways World, we would turn up to see a boat and find reality was not reflected in the ad. We struck lucky with the first boat as my wife had bought me a subscription to Waterways World and we got the magazine before it hit the shops and viewed and bought it before the owner was deluged with offers. This was after a year of looking for a boat in earnest. The second boat I saw on the duck and sent an e-mail to my wife saying how nice it was, we ended up with a fleet because it was even better in the flesh. That was a South West Durham Steel Craft boat but not one of the Analcrime boats. Having said that, even the Analcrime boats are well built, although I don’t like the layout.

Visit some boats for goodness sake.

[doratheexplorer]

It is possible to live very cheaply on a boat. Continuous cruise on a basic 25’ yoghurt pot and live like a hobo. If you like the simple life : boat approx £3k. Licence approx £500. 3rd party insurance £100. Forage for berries and barbecue a goose now and then. 

 

Easy!

[WotEver]

32 minutes ago, Stewart Kirby said:

Visit some boats for goodness sake.

Well said that man!

 

[doratheexplorer]

36 minutes ago, Stewart Kirby said:

Avoiding the arguments about the spreadsheet and which builder is better etc when it comes down to it you gotta see boats in the flesh. If you like it pore over your spreadsheets but when it comes down to it looking at ads on the duck or wherever is only a pointer. I remember when looking for our first boat in 1997 looking at online ads and, gulp, Waterways World, we would turn up to see a boat and find reality was not reflected in the ad. We struck lucky with the first boat as my wife had bought me a subscription to Waterways World and we got the magazine before it hit the shops and viewed and bought it before the owner was deluged with offers. This was after a year of looking for a boat in earnest. The second boat I saw on the duck and sent an e-mail to my wife saying how nice it was, we ended up with a fleet because it was even better in the flesh. That was a South West Durham Steel Craft boat but not one of the Analcrime boats. Having said that, even the Analcrime boats are well built, although I don’t like the layout.

Visit some boats for goodness sake.

Anal Crime? What????

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Anal Crime? What????

It's either a sarcastic take or a dubious autocorrect of canaltime. 

 

I'm hoping for sarcastic... 

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

It's either a sarcastic take or a dubious autocorrect of canaltime. 

 

I'm hoping for sarcastic... 

I don’t like the sound of an anal crime Boat! ?

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

I don’t like the sound of an anal crime Boat! ?

I heard they are a bum deal. 

[jetzi]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

How do you do that? 

I live in a house and it costs me £1000 pa in council tax, a few hundred in maintenance, where am I going to cut costs to live on a boat of 50ft?

Everyone reckons a NB costs about £5K pa, seems a huge difference,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

For those who own their own house - if you have to factor in another 12 grand for rent then the balance seems firmly tipped in favour of the narrowboat, right?

[jetzi]

3 hours ago, Stewart Kirby said:

Visit some boats for goodness sake.

 

5 hours ago, Big Bob W said:

Ditch the spreadsheets and get out there looking. End of.

 

4 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

The OP will not find a boat without getting out there and talking face to face with people.

 

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

Well said that man!

 

OK, I'm sorry if I haven't made myself clear - I'm in the process of looking at as many boats and in as many locations as I can. I'm in no hurry so I'm only looking at about a boat a week. I'll come back and ask more questions / post more findings in a few weeks, once I've looked at another dozen or two boats - hopefully then we'll find some common ground on that point.

 

Til then!

 

[70liveaboard]

18 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

 

 

 

 

OK, I'm sorry if I haven't made myself clear - I'm in the process of looking at as many boats and in as many locations as I can. I'm in no hurry so I'm only looking at about a boat a week. I'll come back and ask more questions / post more findings in a few weeks, once I've looked at another dozen or two boats - hopefully then we'll find some common ground on that point.

 

Til then!

 

Good, take some pics whilst your out there, I'll get the popcorn in..

[MtB]

6 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

 

 

 

 

OK, I'm sorry if I haven't made myself clear - I'm in the process of looking at as many boats and in as many locations as I can. I'm in no hurry so I'm only looking at about a boat a week. I'll come back and ask more questions / post more findings in a few weeks, once I've looked at another dozen or two boats - hopefully then we'll find some common ground on that point.

 

Til then!

 

 

You sure give the impression you spend far more time spreadsheeting than actually visiting boats for sale, however! 

[Tonka]

perhaps we have all been tricked by the op's lack of abbreviation. Maybe he meant

 

Rank, these boatbuilders ?

And some of them are rank

[jetzi]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

You sure give the impression you spend far more time spreadsheeting than actually visiting boats for sale, however! 

 

I expect that impression is due to every other post saying "go look at boats" and everyone slapping each other on the back saying "hear, hear" more than anything I've said, which usually relates directly to boats that we are in fact looking at. I don't have the patience to convince anyone though, so believe what you want.

 

The first boat we asked about, Joan, got a very negative review from the forum, with the primary criticism being the pedigree of her hull builder. So, I try to find out more about hull builders and everyone says "thats not the way to do it maaan, when you find her, you'll just know, maaan". That's cool though, people have different views and it's good to get a balanced perspective. For me by now this viewpoint is exactly halfway between

 

"You must buy a Colecraft, an R&D or a Haywood... and whatever you do stay away from Liverpool. It's like the difference between a Rolls Royce and a Skoda."

 

and

 

"Don't pay any attention to the shell builder, it's a cottage industry, each boat is unique, there's no way to tell a hull's quality without a survey and it doesn't matter anyway, the fit-out is the important thing."

 

As such I'm still lead to believe that the hull builder is of halfway importance and I've mentally weighted it accordingly. It's not about _prohibiting_ boats that don't get a rave review from the forum. When I see a boat built by a certain Gary Gorton, and I have no idea if he's the king of narrowboat builders or a weekend warrior with an oxyacetylene torch, it's helpful to be able to look at something that says, ok there are 3 other Gorton boats for sale, and at least some people think he's OK, before I commit to a weekend of traveling or even a 1000 pound survey completely blind.

 

So if you'll excuse me I'll not ditch the spreadsheet just yet.