How to value a boat...?

[Earthwatcher]

Since there has been much talk of Les Allen boats here, I wondered if a comparison of this one (sold) might help.

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, Earthwatcher said:

Since there has been much talk of Les Allen boats here, I wondered if a comparison of this one (sold) might help.

Similar to our one. 

[alan_fincher]

11 minutes ago, Earthwatcher said:

Since there has been much talk of Les Allen boats here, I wondered if a comparison of this one (sold) might help.

The fact that the HRW3 is at the back, rather than in a location forward of a back cabin would be a concern to me.

These are not the quietest engines in the world to be stood immediately above, and I'd rather have up to 10 feet of separation from it.

Against that of course, there must be a great deal of continuous accommodation, which will appeal to many wanting lots of living space.

[David Mack]

Not sure I agree about no. 1. A known high quality builder with a good reputation will add value. But the majority of middle and lower end boats were built by a range of companies, small and large, some better than others, in varying styles and levels of workmanship. The weighting which different buyers put on these factors, compared with your other numbered points will vary widely, and what matters to you may be very different from what matters to the next buyer. In your price bracket you are unlikely to see many examples of the top names (unless the boat needs a lot of work). So condition, equipment and fitout will be more important than who built the shell.

[Athy]

55 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

The fact that the HRW3 is at the back, rather than in a location forward of a back cabin would be a concern to me.

These are not the quietest engines in the world to be stood immediately above, and I'd rather have up to 10 feet of separation from it.

Against that of course, there must be a great deal of continuous accommodation, which will appeal to many wanting lots of living space.

Had the engine in our first boat been in the "traditional" position, i.e. forward of the cabin, I might not have developed my enthusiasm for older engines.

'Octavia' had a manstand for the steerer, directly above an otherwise uncovered Petter PH2. I couldn't hear much of what was going on beyond the boat but I absolutely loved that noise. I did learn to smile nicely when other boats passed and the crew said something to me, as I could rarely hear them but it seemed only polite to respond in some way.

[70liveaboard]

9 hours ago, Athy said:

I don't believe it has been yet, has it?

That, if I'm not mistaken, is a "Millennium", introduced a couple of years after they brought out their budget range and having a rather higher spec.

It said sale agreed, so I assume its going.

I just saw a 45' Millenium go for £27,000, plus the 25' I put in another thread on here somewhere, that seems to have gone too, can't remember how much it was up for.

 

The Millenium range was just the longer version of the Inlander range. Same spec, just longer boats. This was owing to demand by customers for budget boats beyond 35', I think. I think this is where they may have shot themselves in the foot really.

A 50' trad of theirs went at Venetian a while back for £39,950, nice boat too. Not one of the budget range, but from the mid 90's.

 

Like Liverpool boats, they sell fairly well and hold their price, well increase really.

Edited July 23, 2018 by 70liveaboard

[Richard10002]

11 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

I disagree.

We actually know very little about this boat so far.

 

I don't think anybody has recognised the builder have they - it could even be a home brew by an enthusiastic amateur.

It has apparently had some overpating, but we don't seem to know why or when, or to what standard.

There is a survey, but it doesn't mention this (!)

If I was as new to this as OP says he is, I'd be wanting heaps more reassurance before putting in an offer.

Even if he gets a deposit fully returned, docking and survey will cost maybe £1,000, and that will be £1,000 less available to offer on any other boat, if this one is a duffer.

Which is why I qualified what I say with, “provided there is nothing serious in a survey”.

 

Sometimes, particular when inexperienced, you have to hold your nose and jump.

 

Ideally we would all know that the boat we offer on will fly through a survey but, if that was the case, why have a survey? At some point, we spend our thousand pounds, and hope that all is OK. However, if it isn’t OK, and we don’t buy the boat, we have only lost a thousand, and not several tens of thousands on a worthless pile of steel.

 

Bit Catch 22 really. It’s really easy to talk someone out of buying a boat, as against suggesting it’s an amazing deal, and they should get it bought before someone else buys it.

 

i agree that, with this boat, some suspicions are raised around the plating, (or not), the things in the survey that have been put right, and I have said as much in the thread on surveys.

[Earthwatcher]

Another Les Allen 70 footer for the sake of comparison. Beyond the OP budget but it looks a very tidy boat.

[David Mack]

11 minutes ago, Earthwatcher said:

Another Les Allen 70 footer for the sake of comparison. Beyond the OP budget but it looks a very tidy boat.

 

But worth watching in case the price comes down a bit.

[Mick in Bangkok]

On ‎23‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 18:44, ivan&alice said:

You're right, apologies, there were two questions that I haven't been able to answer:

1. "who is Don Pride". Since none of you have heard of him, nor does a Google search turn up anything, I think it's safe to say that Joan is a no-name brand, likely an enthusiastic amateur or low-end boat builder.
2. "whats up with the overplating" the current owner says there was overplating done by the previous owner, but the survey done when they bought her does not mention it. So it's possible that a) there is no overplating, and the owner is mistaken, b) there was overplating done after the survey, and the owner is being deceptive, or c) the survey failed to mention it, despite being a pretty comprehensive survey.

I felt that the 2-year old survey was recent enough and had intended on just getting an in-water valuation. You guys have definitely scared me enough to get a full out-of-water survey done if we do buy Joan. But just to reiterate she is not the only boat we are looking at, simply an example of one that we liked.

 

---

 

Regarding the actual question "How to value a boat?", I think all in all I have got an answer. Thanks to all those who gave advice. I have learned a lot from this discussion about the value of boats, namely:

1. the builder (brand) is of primary importance (but they're hard to rank)
2. the interior fit-out is possibly next
3. engine type, hull maintenance record, details about overplating etc is next most important
4. length makes no price difference in 50' to 70' boats - larger boats are unpopular, can't navigate everywhere, & have higher maintenance costs
5. age makes next to no price difference in well-maintained boats, unless the craft is younger than 20 years.

Would you agree with this summary?

 

(For a little insight into the mind of a newbie, before this thread I would have put 3 and 5 at the top of my list of influential factors. Number 1 wasn't even on my radar, and 2 (the interior) I felt was pretty low on the list, as long as she was liveable, because we'd probably want to make our own improvements anyway!)

Also a newbe here so interested in all the comments offered, however 4 above mentions boats larger than 70' being unpopular and high maintenance, surely 70' or 72' would be the limit available?

 

 

[Athy]

1 hour ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

Also a newbe here so interested in all the comments offered, however 4 above mentions boats larger than 70' being unpopular and high maintenance, surely 70' or 72' would be the limit available?

 

 

Yes it would. "Larger" in that context means the upper range of available lengths (perhaps 60' to 70' boats).

[rusty69]

On 23/07/2018 at 20:53, Earthwatcher said:

Another Les Allen 70 footer for the sake of comparison. Beyond the OP budget but it looks a very tidy boat.

 

On 23/07/2018 at 21:05, David Mack said:

 

But worth watching in case the price comes down a bit.

Definitely worth watching, or even viewing.

 

Ignoring the London price tag and white paint "upgrade", looks like a reasonable boat. 

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

Definitely worth watching, or even viewing.

 

Ignoring the London price tag and white paint "upgrade", looks like a reasonable boat. 

 

Viewing is ALWAYS a Good Idea not just for the obvious reason of seeing another boat and adding to your experience.

 

The less obvious reason is that if/when they thump the price to get it shifted, you have already seen it and are ready to swoop in with an immediate offer over the phone, which gives you the inside track over all the other people interested who need to visit first. (Avoiding for the seller all that 'how about this Sunday? No? Maybe next Sunday? Ok.' Oh dammit they rang and cancelled, bought a different boat yesterday... and all that dicking about)

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Viewing is ALWAYS a Good Idea not just for the obvious reason of seeing another boat and adding to your experience.

 

The less obvious reason is that if/when they thump the price to get it shifted, you have already seen it and are ready to swoop in with an immediate offer over the phone, which gives you the inside track over all the other people interested who need to visit first. (Avoiding for the seller all that 'how about this Sunday? No? Maybe next Sunday? Ok.' Oh dammit they rang and cancelled, bought a different boat yesterday... and all that dicking about)

An excellent observation (not worthy of a greenie though)