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Would you buy an overplated boat?


jetzi

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We're looking at buying a narrowboat, and the older ones often have overplating work done. To my inexperienced mind that sounds like a terrible thing! I would think that a boat would be designed to a certain specification and having a bunch of extra metal welded onto it would cause a lot of trouble - such as sitting lower in the water, using more fuel, etc. I would also imagine that new metal welded to old metal wouldn't be as strong as original metal of the same total thickness. I'm wondering if there are any downsides to having overplating done. There may be no choice - apparently a boat must have 6mm of thickness all round under the waterline to be insurable. Is this true?

Is a boat with 8mm of non-overplated thickness as good as a boat with an original hull worn down to 4mm and had 4mm overplating welded on top? Am I being too choosy - would you buy such a boat? It seems like the age of a boat doesn't seem to affect the price of it nearly as much as say a car. A 2005 boat and a 1985 boat can be comparable in price, even if the 1985 boat has been overplated!! Is there an easy explanation for this?

Thanks for the advice!

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I bought one. It was entirely waterworthy but I had to have the engine's exhaust outlet raised by a few inches because the extra weight of metal had brought it down too close to the waterline. I sold it on. The new owners were happy (I assume, as they haven't come banging on my door since).

As far as I know there's no hard-and-fast rule about steel thickness and insurability. Many 1970s and 1980s boats were built with hulls only 4 or 5 mm in thickness, and they seem to get insured, and to stay afloat.

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Overplating is fine provided it has been done properly by a competent boat builder. 

 

Much depends on what has been done-  There must be no way for water to get between the original and the new, and this is often a problem where a thin baseplate has been overplated.  Large areas   more than about a foot wide) need to be secured to the old plate at intervals  away from the edges not just at the edges.  Thin strips are OK welded just round the edges.

 

There are other problems- ballast/ increased immersion and consequences for drains/ exhausts and  unwanted extra draught are the most noticeable but they are soluble.  Increased fuel consumption is not really noticeable unless you have nearly sunk  the boat with extra plate.

 

Generally insurance companies seem to want a minimum of 4mm- anything less and they expect an overplate.  God knows why.   Many Springer Water bugs were only 3.2mm thick when they left Market Harborough for the first time and they seem to endure.  Even the bigger Springers were not much more than 5mm or so when new.

 

IMO overplating is not as good as replating (cutting out the thin and replacing with new) but if done properly strength is not an issue.   Overplating is not as strong but it is strong enough- a narrow boat is an immensely strong girder, even if it is only 3-4 mm thick in places.

 

N

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I would not buy one unless the price was low enough to reflect the poor state of the hull bodged up with the overplating.

 

Sadly most vendors pitch overplating as restoring a hull to new condition, which is most certainly a false assertion. 

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3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I would not buy one unless the price was low enough to reflect the poor state of the hull bodged up with the overplating.

 

Sadly most vendors pitch overplating as restoring a hull to new condition, which is most certainly a false assertion. 

Ditto.

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You can get insurance with a metal thickness less than 6mm (I thought it was 4mm but different insurance companies will undoubtedly have different requirements). An insurance company usually has a metal thickness combined with age of the boat, and do not usually ask for a metal thickness survey until at least 20 years old. Third Party insurance is available for every boat regardless of age, metal thickness or whether it has had a survey or not.

 

I have no engineering background but I dislike overplating. My 82 year old boat was rebottomed in 2003 by cutting out the old and welding in new steel, which is quite expensive. To do this properly the interior fittings will need removing, hence overplating being popular based on its lower cost if nothing else. There are a number of boatyards that now do extensive hull overplating and obviously they will say this practice in O.K., but it definitely need to be high quality work.

 

Due to its age my boat has some overplating but this will be removed and the hull replated during my ownership :captain:

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I wouldn't, but many would and plenty do. I can see it for restoring something historic or a bit special, but not for some munter that really is past it, so I guess it very much depends on what the original boat was and also how well the replating was done.  That's only my opinion though - I wouldn't step aboard some of the boats I see folk living on, so clearly there's wide range of acceptability when it comes to boats!

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21 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

There may be no choice - apparently a boat must have 6mm of thickness all round under the waterline to be insurable. Is this true?

No - probably the most common spec for new build modern narrowboats is 10mm baseplate, 6mm sides, 4mm cabin top.  The slightest issue would then make 6mm sided boats uninsurable. 

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8 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I wouldn't, but many would and plenty do. I can see it for restoring something historic or a bit special, but not for some munter that really is past it,

A greeno for teaching me that word, which I had never seen or heard before. The Oxford Dic. says it's "an unattractive woman", I suppose by extension it could be applied to a boat too. But even if one didn't know the definition, the very ugliness of the word itself shows that it's not complimentary.

 

However, my overplated boat was a 26' Springer, not that special but certainly no munter. It has totally dry bilges so evidently there was no water ingress, suggesting that the work had been well done.

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1 minute ago, Athy said:

A greeno for teaching me that word, which I had never seen or heard before. The Oxford Dic. says it's "an unattractive woman", I suppose by extension it could be applied to a boat too. But even if one didn't know the definition, the very ugliness of the word itself shows that it's not complimentary.

 

However, my overplated boat was a 26' Springer, not that special but certainly no munter. It has totally dry bilges so evidently there was no water ingress, suggesting that the work had been well done.

Yup, definitely a word that somehow speaks for itself, even if the Oxford English isn't to hand!  :D

(Anyway Athy, I'm sure your little Springer doesn't fit such a disparaging description) 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

 

(Anyway Athy, I'm sure your little Springer doesn't fit such a disparaging description) 

 

 

 

Well, yes and no. She looked grotty when I bought her and pretty when, several coats of paint and upholstery later, I sold her!

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Clearly a difference in opinion here - 3 of you say well-done overplating is OK (not ideal) and 4 say they would avoid. Loads of good information - thanks @BEngo especially for the details and for explaining about replating - Good to know that she can have the steel cut out and replaced should our ship ever come in! (pun intended)

Our budget is 30 000 GBP and in that low-ish price range we seem to be seeing quite a few boats with overplating.

Our favourite boat so far has had a survey just shy of 2 years ago which the owners sent to us. She has sides and base plate readings of betwen 4.8mm and 6mm so I assume the original thickness was 6mm. Average is 5.3. However, the owners said she's had some overplating work done, and that is my biggest reservation about her. I'll have to check up on insurance for her before we make any decisions - we definitely want comprehensive because for us we'll be sinking a lot of money into this boat (pun also intended... promise I'll stop soon)

 

50 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

I thought it was 4mm but different insurance companies will undoubtedly have different requirements

Now that you mention it, I think it was actually 4mm. I'll have to check my sources on that and get back to you. I'll do some shopping around and report back.

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41 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:



Our favourite boat so far has had a survey just shy of 2 years ago which the owners sent to us. She has sides and base plate readings of betwen 4.8mm and 6mm so I assume the original thickness was 6mm. Average is 5.3. However, the owners said she's had some overplating work done, and that is my biggest reservation about her. I'll have to check up on insurance for her before we make any decisions - we definitely want comprehensive because for us we'll be sinking a lot of money into this boat (pun also intended... promise I'll stop soon)

 

 

As you'll be commissioning an out-of-water hull survey (won't you?) all will be revealed and explained by your marine surveyor. "Aarrgghh!" I hear you say, "That will cost me hundreds of pounds!" Yes, I shall reply smugly, but it could save you thousands if he spots potential problems and/or money-pits..

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11 minutes ago, Athy said:

As you'll be commissioning an out-of-water hull survey (won't you?) all will be revealed and explained by your marine surveyor. "Aarrgghh!" I hear you say, "That will cost me hundreds of pounds!" Yes, I shall reply smugly, but it could save you thousands if he spots potential problems and/or money-pits..

And a new survey report identifying work needed may get the purchase price down a bit.

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57 minutes ago, Athy said:

As you'll be commissioning an out-of-water hull survey (won't you?) all will be revealed and explained by your marine surveyor. "Aarrgghh!" I hear you say, "That will cost me hundreds of pounds!" Yes, I shall reply smugly, but it could save you thousands if he spots potential problems and/or money-pits..

 

45 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And a new survey report identifying work needed may get the purchase price down a bit.

 

44 minutes ago, Detling said:

You can often save more than the survey cost when you renegotiate the price following the list of hopefully minor faults your surveyor found. If he finds a show stopper then he has saved your limited capital from loss.

Much of which has also been said in the parallel thread 

 

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

As you'll be commissioning an out-of-water hull survey (won't you?) all will be revealed and explained by your marine surveyor.

 

I have to say, not really, all cannot be revealed. A survey will not reveal the condition of the original hull concealed beneath the overplating. 

 

One thing not mentioned so far however, is that surveyors are terribly fond of announcing as fact that a hull needs overplating when odd bits of it are down to 4mm thick (often after 30 years of deterioration from an original thickness of 6mm, or even 5mm) when this is just arse-covering rather than a technical need. Owners swallow the advice whole and just get the work done without considering the downsides of increased weight and corrosion probably continuing and accelerated underneath the overplating. (4mm of steel is more than capable of keeping the water out, as indeed is 3mm, 2mm and even 1mm.) Often the steel is still 6mm thick but with a scattering of pits 2-3mm deep or so. 

 

The main reason for advising overplating a hull that has taken 30 years to acquire 3mm pitting is to qualify for comprehensive insurance, rather than any urgent technical reason. 

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I have to say, not really, all cannot be revealed. 

'tis a mere figure of speech. Perhaps one can draw a parallel with the harvest hymn whose words include "All is safely gathered in" but which some people insist, prudently, on singing "SOME is safely gathered in".

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In today's market, in the £25-30k bracket there will be a lot of overplated boats.  There will also be a lot of older boats where the condition of the hull, especially the baseplate, is an educated guess.  MTB is right, even the best surveyor can't guarantee that a boat has a perfectly sound hull, and it only takes one deep pit to sink a boat.  I know of several boats that have gone under as a result of pitting even though the owners, apparently, kept on top of the blacking.  It's a rare owner that goes to all the trouble of having their hull grit blasted to reveal the true condition.  So that leaves you with a choice, buy a boat where the owner has played safe and had it overplated, or take a risk that the hull is 100% sound.  By all means engage a surveyor, but be prepared to accept that most of them will err on the pessimistic side if they find any evidence of pitting.

 

Bear in mind that most overplated boats will have started out with 6mm baseplates so will carry quite a lot of ballast.  So if overplated there should be quite a bit of elbow room to correct the trim.  Even then it's normally only necessary if the entire hull needs doing.  An extra 6mm on an existing 6mm bottom probably won't cause any issues.

 

The insurance thing is an urban myth.  If insurance companies insisted on a minimum 6mm of steel thickness an awful lot of steel cruisers and yachts would be uninsurable. 

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4 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Clearly a difference in opinion here - 3 of you say well-done overplating is OK (not ideal) and 4 say they would avoid

Another 'avoid'.

 

If you buy a boat needing overplating you can control how it is done and who does it and to what level it is done. Buy a boat already overplated that has been done as a quick bodge job to stop it sinking and to enable it to be sold - expensive disaster for the buyer.

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8 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

I would.

I did.

I'd do it again.

 

Did you pay the same price as if the boat had not been a rust bucket in the first place? Or did you factor in a discount?

 

I'd certainly buy one if cheap enough to overplate it again properly, as Alan put his finger on the problem. Overplating is often done when selling to cover up the issues in a slapdash way, and ramp up the price. Once done, it is hard to tell what horrors lie behind. As Jim illustrated with his photos of the HAMPTON overplating when he had it all cut out and done properly. 

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We were very ignorant when we bought Theodora 11 years ago.  We didn't commission our own survey but accepted the thckness results from a previous one.  We absolutely bought on the advcie of our hearts rather than our heads.

 

In our case we were very lucky.  Several surveys later we have been congratulated on the excellent state of the hull which had been replated of the back one third.  The trims nicely by the stern and has served us well as liveaboards for 30 months and occasional cruisers for the rest of our ownership.  So I would say that in our case overplating has not been a problem.

 

I would guess that the way to be as sure has possible that she hase been overplated properly is to have her out of the water and get someone who really knows what they are talking about to have a close look.

 

N

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