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Pre-Purchase Surveys for Buyers - what's the procedure?


jetzi

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We're looking at buying a narrowboat (either a 57' or a 70'). She will be the largest purchase we'll ever make and the potential for things to go wrong is obviously pretty high - houses don't usually sink! I've also heard for example that the hull thickness must be at least 6mm for the boat to be insured - uninsurability would be a dealbreaker.

I'm given to understand that it's usual for a buyer to pay to have a complete, out-of-water, pre-purchase survey done on the boat before handing over the money. This raises a LOT of questions for me! I'm hoping that someone with experience in buying a narrowboat and having a pre-purchase survey done can explain the procedure and etiquette to me.

 

Say I've found a narrowboat on Gumtree, last survey 2+ years ago, whose owners are currently living on her, and we've agreed on a price conditional on a survey.

1. Does the buyer or the seller usually arrange the survey, choose a surveyor, and a survey location/time?

 

2. Does the buyer pay the surveyor directly?


3. Does the seller transport the boat to the location and will they move off the boat while the boat lifted out of the water and is being surveyed?

4. If problems are found (and a few surely will be) would it be usual to re-negotiate the price? Meet halfway on the costs?

5. What if someone else is interested in the boat and (say) are willing to buy her without having a survey done? Will they be able to undercut us or put in an offer?

6. What if we can't agree on a price after having done the survey? It seems I'm in a position here where I've lost the money I spent on the survey. Will the next potential buyer get the benefit of my survey without having to pay for it? 

 

7. If we do buy the boat and say it needs some work - blacking or (God forbid) overplating - would we have this done there and then at the place of survey (save on costs)?

 

8. Would the process differ if we buy from a marina rather than a private seller?


I know these questions are all kind of situational and would probably be part of the negotiation between buyer and seller. If there is a "general" or "usual" procedure to follow though, I'd like to hear about it so I don't insult the seller with my hesitation. I'd at least like to hear some anecdotes from people who have been through the process of surveying a boat they don't yet own. Thanks!

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15 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

We're looking at buying a narrowboat (either a 57' or a 70'). She will be the largest purchase we'll ever make and the potential for things to go wrong is obviously pretty high - houses don't usually sink! I've also heard for example that the hull thickness must be at least 6mm for the boat to be insured - uninsurability would be a dealbreaker.

I'm given to understand that it's usual for a buyer to pay to have a complete, out-of-water, pre-purchase survey done on the boat before handing over the money. This raises a LOT of questions for me! I'm hoping that someone with experience in buying a narrowboat and having a pre-purchase survey done can explain the procedure and etiquette to me.

 

Say I've found a narrowboat on Gumtree, last survey 2+ years ago, whose owners are currently living on her, and we've agreed on a price conditional on a survey.

1. Does the buyer or the seller usually arrange the survey, choose a surveyor, and a survey location/time?

 

2. Does the buyer pay the surveyor directly?


3. Does the seller transport the boat to the location and will they move off the boat while the boat lifted out of the water and is being surveyed?

4. If problems are found (and a few surely will be) would it be usual to re-negotiate the price? Meet halfway on the costs?

5. What if someone else is interested in the boat and (say) are willing to buy her without having a survey done? Will they be able to undercut us or put in an offer?

6. What if we can't agree on a price after having done the survey? It seems I'm in a position here where I've lost the money I spent on the survey. Will the next potential buyer get the benefit of my survey without having to pay for it? 

 

7. If we do buy the boat and say it needs some work - blacking or (God forbid) overplating - would we have this done there and then at the place of survey (save on costs)?

 

8. Would the process differ if we buy from a marina rather than a private seller?


I know these questions are all kind of situational and would probably be part of the negotiation between buyer and seller. If there is a "general" or "usual" procedure to follow though, I'd like to hear about it so I don't insult the seller with my hesitation. I'd at least like to hear some anecdotes from people who have been through the process of surveying a boat they don't yet own. Thanks!

There are many ways to buy a boat so nothing is general. Personaly of the 8 I have bought I never have a survey. If you do then the purchaser should get their own and not one suggested by the vendor. You need to have the purchase price decided before the survey with some negotiation for supposed work needing doing. There is NO legal paperwork required for boats changing hand. There is a thing called RCD but its in reality codswollop but read up on it if your the worrying type. Remember you are the one about to hand over cash so you are in charge. If it were me and someone came up with cash without survey then I would bid you farewell as money in the hand is better than a maybe subect to survey. Both my last boats and indeed six of my previous seven were purchased from me without surveys, a couple in the 65k bracket so a survey is far from always being the case. If I were you I would find someone with proper first hand experience over a beer and ask them to look first before spending any dosh. I am not telling you not to have a survey just saying it like it is. I have seen some abysmal surveys over the years and the surveyer wil ALWAYS have a cop out clause if he messes things up.

By the way 57 or 70 is a humungous difference and totally different beasts. The 70 footer is much, much better to live on but there are a few but not too many places you cant get on one. Do your research.

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17 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Say I've found a narrowboat on Gumtree, last survey 2+ years ago, whose owners are currently living on her, and we've agreed on a price conditional on a survey.

1. Does the buyer or the seller usually arrange the survey, choose a surveyor, and a survey location/time?

 

2. Does the buyer pay the surveyor directly?


3. Does the seller transport the boat to the location and will they move off the boat while the boat lifted out of the water and is being surveyed?

4. If problems are found (and a few surely will be) would it be usual to re-negotiate the price? Meet halfway on the costs?

5. What if someone else is interested in the boat and (say) are willing to buy her without having a survey done? Will they be able to undercut us or put in an offer?

6. What if we can't agree on a price after having done the survey? It seems I'm in a position here where I've lost the money I spent on the survey. Will the next potential buyer get the benefit of my survey without having to pay for it? 

 

7. If we do buy the boat and say it needs some work - blacking or (God forbid) overplating - would we have this done there and then at the place of survey (save on costs)?

 

8. Would the process differ if we buy from a marina rather than a private seller?

My opinions - and others may / will think differently:

 

1 - I would think the buyer would arrange the survey as this is a business arrangement between you and the surveyor.

2 - the survey is a business arrangement between you and the surveyor so the buyer will pay directly.

3 - this will need to be agreed between the seller and potential buyer.

4 - everything is always open to negotiation, but the seller may not agree with all negative aspects found by your surveyor.

5 - every boat is for sale until it is sold, so the seller will usually be open to offers until your money is in their bank account, but this will be where a positive relationship between the seller and buyer is helpful.

6 - You pay for the survey if you want one doing, so you bear the cost whether you buy the boat or not - the argument being that the cost of the survey could save you thousands of pounds. The survey will be yours so any other potential buyer will not see it, but the seller may talk with the surveyor during the survey and get snippets or an overvue of any issues.

7 - it is most likely that dock space will be in demand meaning that faults found would need to be booked for a later date, unless the survey is carried out at a yard that has space, time and the facilities / manpower to carry out repairs straight away - but technically the boat will still belong to the seller at the time of survey.

8 - I see no difference buying from an individual or from a marina, and bear in mind that most boats sold through a marina are privately owned and sold on brokerage.

 

I have recently bought an 82 year old narrow boat without a survey, why, because I wanted it - but I have known this boat for over 40 years :captain:

 

 

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Experienced boaters like Mrs Melly and Pete Harrison know enough about boats to take a view without needing a survey. As a newbie you may feel you don't. But a survey costs, and won't necessarily find every significant fault with a boat, but it should give you some peace of mind.  Don't accept the vendor's or broker's recommendation for a surveyor, as you don't know how independent they are. You want your own surveyor.

 

Try to be there for the survey. That way you can pick up on comments from the surveyor, that may well express his overall opinion of the boat in a way which doesn't make it to the written report.

 

Also, most insurers will want to see an out-of-water survey report if you want fully comprehensive insurance for a boat older than 25-30 years (it varies a bit from company to company). So for Joan, for example, a survey would probably be an insurance requirement. 

  • Greenie 1
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Any decent surveyor will find faults at least to the cost of the survey. He will also proved a valuation, which may or may not be another lever to negotiate a lower price.

 

For example on my boat, the surveyor said the charging part of the combi charger/inverter wasn't working.  Survey cost £500 + £300 for the dry dock hire. New combi was £2000 plus fitting, so I  re-negotiated £2000 off the purchase price.

 

When I got the boat back to my mooring, I  found the combi was in fact working, so it mist jave been the shore power at the dry dock which wasnt working. ?

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Always have  a pre purchase survey . The only possible exception would be a very low value purchase.

Even a well presented boat may have issues and the survey report would provide negotiating power in the even that significant issues are identified.

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Thanks for the advice here. Just to note I am not only looking at one boat, there is just a current winner, and I am speaking generally about the procedure of a pre-purchase survey.

For Joan, we have a survey from when the current owners bought her in September 2016 (just under 2 years ago). The owners have assured us that the few issues identified there have been dealt with - they are nice people and I trust them as well as one can. We'll consider whether the sale price (they're asking 37 000) is worth the cost and effort of an updated survey - but I'm leaning towards no at the moment. I will at least get an in-water valuation by an experienced surveyor. I'm given to understand this will set us back about 100 quid.

Edited by ivan&alice
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An in water survey tells you nothing about the hull, or the possible overplating, somyou are left making a decision with no information about the most important part of your purchase.

 

The sellers might seem like nice trustworthy people, but they are trying to sell a boat they bought only a couple of years ago, and they want to take the best part of £40,000 off you, so buyer beware?

 

when they say they have dealt with all the things in their survey, have they shown you that they have? Your comments suggest that you are just taking their word....

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As you the buyer are paying for the survey, that information is your property.

You only tell the seller, the bad bits to get the price reduced. 

Should you not buy, then you walk away with the information. 

Should the seller wish to buy the complete report, then that is yours to sell, subject to the surveyors resell conditions. 

 

Bod

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8 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

Thanks for the advice here. Just to note I am not only looking at one boat, there is just a current winner, and I am speaking generally about the procedure of a pre-purchase survey.

For Joan, we have a survey from when the current owners bought her in September 2016 (just under 2 years ago). The owners have assured us that the few issues identified there have been dealt with - they are nice people and I trust them as well as one can. We'll consider whether the sale price (they're asking 37 000) is worth the cost and effort of an updated survey - but I'm leaning towards no at the moment. I will at least get an in-water valuation by an experienced surveyor. I'm given to understand this will set us back about 100 quid.

If the owners can produce receipts to demonstrate that they carried out the works and other general maintenance ie engine servicing then you would probably be ok. Elsewhere  are a couple seeking advice about taking a seller to court over the purchase of a 6 year old boat with a ‘new’ engine who didn’t get a survey as they bought if a nice couple. Buyer beware.

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I can only tell my own story.

My first boat had a faulty immersion heater that was not picked up at the survey. With hindsight the surveyor was useless as he did not bother to connect shore power despite the boat being ashore in a marina. The survey was not worth it although the immersion heater was hardly a deal breaker.

For my present boat I had become wiser and knew of a good surveyor. He found faults that were not all apparent to me nor had been known to the owners and cost a few thousand to fix. Had I not had the survey I would have been a few thousand out of pocket.

I still have the survey report and will be able to hand it over if and when I sell the boat – together with evidence of  the faults being corrected .

Boats seem to develop faults all the time.  I had a  light bulb fail only last week!

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I had a survey on the first boat i wanted to buy back in 1980. There was little wrong with the boat, structurally  but  the surveyor told me i would regret buying it.  it simply was not suitable for living on, gas central heating, minimal insulation, Poor lighting bad layout.

we went on to buy a privately built boat only 2 years old, and didnt have a survey. With the saved money we upgraded the one fault by fitting a solid fuel stove. Its someimes about purpose as well as condition

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