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What is the Rochdale actually like?


nicknorman

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6 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

It was filled in and built over in Huddersfield. I very much doubt that happened to the Rochdale.

Just checked on the restoration of the Rochdale. There were indeed some culverted sections around failsworth. Whether they were actually built on is unclear, but why else would you culvert a section?

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The area where Tuel Lane deep lock is was filled in and became a supermarket car park when the Rochdale was abandoned. This was of course excavated and Tuel Lock constructed, I believe there had been two locks here when the Rochdale was built.

 

Also there were originally seven reservoirs feeding the Summit Pound, now there are two. The rest being sold off to water authorities.

 

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/rochdale/rc2.htm

Edited by Ray T
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4 hours ago, DonCorleone said:

Your explanation of the difficulties encountered with a boat of approximately one quarter of the displacement of the boats the canal was built for doesn't hang together, any more so it would seem, than do the gates on Lock No. 45.

Demolishing buildings and raising the levels of roads crossing the line of the canal are not issues relating to navigable depth. If your assessment that the canal is "now a 12 foot wide and 3 foot 3 deep waterway at best" is in fact correct, it would be more accurate to describe it as having been reopened to navigation whilst remaining in a semi-derelict condition rather than as having been 'restored'. The fact that "its full of crap, has limited water, and very few boats use it" also tends to confirm that maintenance standards are set no higher than whatever is needed to keep the canal in it's present semi-derelict condition.

Whilst it is unarguable that the regular passage of boats is beneficial to the general condition of a canal, the same cannot be said of lock gates which have, apparently, been left in service until they have become too decrepit to retain their shape under retention level water pressure and the influence of gravity.

 

Do you actually own a canal boat, have you used the canal system and have you ever boated on the Rochdale ???? 

 

Most of the locks and lock gates are in surprisingly good condition, the recent gate failure came as quite a surprise to CaRT as many of the gates are relatively new. The reduced width of the canal is due to a new motorway crossing. Like many canals it goes through coal mining regions and subsidence has caused major problems. Its a little used canal but is most certainly not derelict.

 

The plan was to get 8 boats up here to the summit to add a boating aspect to the Littleborough Rushbearing festival (a seriously good event). 7 boats were recruited but all but three dropped out, partly due to them hearing the sort of doom and gloom stories that you are also making.

 

Interesting fact, all three boats are full time liveaboards driven by women, two of them single handed!  

 

...............Dave

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1 hour ago, George and Dragon said:

It was filled in and built over in Huddersfield. I very much doubt that happened to the Rochdale.

I'd imagine having a six lane motorway laid on it could be classed as being built over.

 

 

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Just checked on the restoration of the Rochdale. There were indeed some culverted sections around failsworth. Whether they were actually built on is unclear, but why else would you culvert a section?

There is a long culverted section near Rochdale to get under a main road or motorway, and several other culverted road crossings. There is a long concrete pounda couple of locks above New Islington, built to cope with subsidence, this was low on water and we went through with less than an inch to spare, but luckily no crap in the bottom. There are interesting sections at Failsworth were a builder filled the disused canal with toxic waste. These were concreted over just below the surface so boats have to keep over to the available narrow channel.

 

Manchester to the Summit resulted in just two weedhatch visits.

 

.............Dave

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34 minutes ago, Ray T said:

The area where Tuel Lane deep lock is was filled in and became a supermarket car park when the Rochdale was abandoned. This was of course excavated and Tuel Lock constructed, I believe there had been two locks here when the Rochdale was built.

 

Also there were originally seven reservoirs feeding the Summit Pound, now there are two. The rest being sold off to water authorities.

 

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/rochdale/rc2.htm

I thought they were all sold off but CaRT retain historic rights to draw off some water. There is, or was, an option for CaRT to buy some of them back but there are still issues to be overcome.  The leet from a lower reservoir up to the summit is still visible though a section has been ploughed up. This could be restored and used if new electric pumps were installed, or even better a steam engine ?

 

What is needed is more boats. Its the peak of the boating season and I reckon in the last week just 7 boats have crossed the summit (well only 4 really cus we are still moored on it).  Walking back down to Littleborough later for more beer and partying. Went to the "barn dance" in the cricket club last night, free entry, free food, not a proper folk band though, more at the heavy metal end of the spectrum.

 

...............Dave

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43 minutes ago, dmr said:

I thought they were all sold off but CaRT retain historic rights to draw off some water.

Which there is a limit on so even when there is plenty of water there, they can't top up the canal! A CRT employee told me a few weeks ago that is the current situation - the water is there but CRT can't use it.

 

Just to add... this is water from the reservoirs NOT used for drinking water.

Edited by Señor Chris
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12 minutes ago, Señor Chris said:

Which there is a limit on so even when there is plenty of water there, they can't top up the canal! A CRT employee told me a few weeks ago that is the current situation - the water is there but CRT can't use it.

 

Just to add... this is water from the reservoirs NOT used for drinking water.

There appears to be all sorts of things going on, including fishermen sometimes diverting CaRTs water flow into a stream. I was told that CaRT had an option to purchase at least one reservoir but they wanted some repairs done before they would take it on and this did not happen.

 

............Dave

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

           

             ..................  ........ have you used the canal system and have you ever boated on the Rochdale ???? 

 

Yes, I have done a bit of boating on the 'canal system', including occasions in the early years when I went along on the forced passages through the Ancoats locks in protest against the Rochdale Canal Company's abandonment Bill. It was hard going, but very satisfying after having finally made it by bodging up collapsing lock gates with bits of old carpet and wood in much the same way as the C&RT are now attempting to mackle-up Lock No. 45.

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9 minutes ago, DonCorleone said:

Yes, I have done a bit of boating on the 'canal system', including occasions in the early years when I went along on the forced passages through the Ancoats locks in protest against the Rochdale Canal Company's abandonment Bill. It was hard going, but very satisfying after having finally made it by bodging up collapsing lock gates with bits of old carpet and wood in much the same way as the C&RT are now attempting to mackle-up Lock No. 45.

I've just walked down the first two locks from the summit with the dog. They look to be in very good condition and almost leak free which is rare for wide locks. Going to walk down to Littleborough in a minute so will have a look at the broken lock. The locks all looked good and worked well when we came up on Wednesday (I think it was Wednesday, its all fading into an alcoholic blurr). Two boats went down a couple of days ago so maybe one hit the gate. Coming up from Manchester almost all of the locks were reasonable, much better than the lower GU or K&A. A couple of paddles were stiff and one or two out of action, plus the handcuff key arrangements can be a fiddle. A lot of gates will not open fully but that's down to lack of use. The top lock at Rochdale was very silted (or an obstruction) and very hard to get into. The lock at Failsworth was full of crap.

 

This is a good canal, mostly in good condition, but there is too much crap in it, not enough water and not enough boats.

 

...............Dave

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A current problem with water feeding Summit pound is that, while the canal has a right to 2million  gallons a day there is currently only 1. 2 or so going in, because United Utilities have decided, in their infinite wisdom, to work on both Warland and Chelburn reservoirs at the same time, rebuilding the overflow sluices. What's needed, to complement the existing supply, is to reinstate the feeder channel from Hollingworth Lake to the Summit pound. Just needs a bit of digging and a new pump at the Hollingworth Lake end. Nice to meet Dmr Dave the other evening at the rush cart event. 

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6 hours ago, dmr said:

Do you actually own a canal boat, have you used the canal system and have you ever boated on the Rochdale ???? 

 

Most of the locks and lock gates are in surprisingly good condition, the recent gate failure came as quite a surprise to CaRT as many of the gates are relatively new. The reduced width of the canal is due to a new motorway crossing. Like many canals it goes through coal mining regions and subsidence has caused major problems. Its a little used canal but is most certainly not derelict.

 

The plan was to get 8 boats up here to the summit to add a boating aspect to the Littleborough Rushbearing festival (a seriously good event). 7 boats were recruited but all but three dropped out, partly due to them hearing the sort of doom and gloom stories that you are also making.

 

Interesting fact, all three boats are full time liveaboards driven by women, two of them single handed!  

 

...............Dave

I sometimes wonder what people expect of a canal? If it is something like the plastic highway of the Thames then I'd be giving up rather sooner than anno domini dictate.

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12 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Just checked on the restoration of the Rochdale. There were indeed some culverted sections around failsworth. Whether they were actually built on is unclear, but why else would you culvert a section?

 

There was a Co-Op supermarket built on the infilled section at Failsworth. It was demolished as part of the restoration.

11 hours ago, Ray T said:

The area where Tuel Lane deep lock is was filled in and became a supermarket car park when the Rochdale was abandoned. This was of course excavated and Tuel Lock constructed, I believe there had been two locks here when the Rochdale was built.

 

Tuel Lane deep lock is on the site of the original Lock 4. Lock 3 was where the tunnel is, under Tuel Lane itself. You can still see part of the lock stonework below the concrete walls just above water level.

The current alignment of Tuel Lane was built over the canal route after it closed.

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Notice Alert

Rochdale Canal
Starts At: Lock 48
Ends At: Lock18

Monday 6 August 2018 07:00 until further notice

Type: Navigation Closure 
Reason: Water resources


 

Original message:

 

Due to the continued drawdown of the reservoirs, the prolonged low rainfall and with the forecast for further dry weather, Trust is reluctantly closing sections of the Rochdale Canal between locks 1 and 48 (from Sowerby Bridge to Littleborough) – with the exception of a short stretch between locks 6 and 19 (east of Mytholmroyd to Todmorden) where navigation will be restricted to the period between 10am and 2pm under a local booking system. commencing on Monday 6th August.

 

 The locks 19  to 48 will be padlocked closed and the gates will be ashed up to reduce leakage.  To prevent unauthorised access though vandalism, measures will be taken to make the locks inoperable.

 

It’s not clear how long the closure will last for but it’s likely to be throughout August and potentially beyond if there is no significant, sustained rainfall. While the closure will prevent use of that stretch of canal by boats the towpath will remain open for visitors and the local community alike to enjoy.

In the meantime, boaters can help conserve water by:

 

•           Sharing locks where possible and making the best use of the water available.

 

•           Ensuring paddles are fully closed once they’ve passed through a lock.

 

•           Aiming for minimal contact when navigating through locks by ensuring gates are fully open as they pass through.    

 

•           Pushing gates open using a boat can damage the gate lining, increasing its leakage.

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3 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

Wow! I can't remember so many canals being closed at the same time in a long while! Makes me glad I left the north west canals for the south...?

At least Allan Richards, Peter Underwood & Tom Crossley will be able to continue to vent an ever mounting rant against CRT. ?

Edited by alan_fincher
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5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Do they usually need a specific reason?

No, of course not, but I feel sure CRT will still face the blame for the current heatwave and total lack of rainfall!

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No the rainfall isn't their fault and given that the north west usually has plenty it wouldn't ever seem like a good investment to improve water storage in that area. But the various canal breaches and long term closure at Marple are the fault of CRT!

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On 21/07/2018 at 09:30, George and Dragon said:

It was filled in and built over in Huddersfield. I very much doubt that happened to the Rochdale.

It was filled in at Sowerby Bridge and a road built on the line (above what is now the tunnel into Tuel Lane lock),
It was filled in near Rochdale and a motorway link road was built across it.

It was filled in at Castleton and a motorway  was built across it.

It was filled in at Failsworth and a supermarket was built across it.

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2 minutes ago, MartinClark said:

It was filled in at Sowerby Bridge and a road built on the line (above what is now the tunnel into Tuel Lane lock),
It was filled in near Rochdale and a motorway link road was built across it.

It was filled in at Castleton and a motorway  was built across it.

It was filled in at Failsworth and a supermarket was built across it.

But apart from that, hardly filled in at all :)

 

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4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

No, of course not, but I feel sure CRT will still face the blame for the current heatwave and total lack of rainfall!

The lack of rainfall cannot be blamed on CRT. What can be blamed on CRT, especially the NW region, are the multiple failures including Marple (botched repair) Bollington (leak from past several years not fixed properly). Breach at Liverpool. Breach at Middlewich. Couple of gates on T&M blamed on boater damage when they were completely rotten, Hud narrow lock 9E, Rochdale lock 45. And many many leaks in locks and pounds meaning what water there is mostly goes to waste. Having just traversed 1/2 the Hud Narrow twice, it is totally apparent that in this region, they have never heard of preventative maintenance / husbandry. Nor even of applying lubricarion to paddle gear.

Edited by nicknorman
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20 minutes ago, MartinClark said:

It was filled in at Sowerby Bridge and a road built on the line (above what is now the tunnel into Tuel Lane lock),
It was filled in near Rochdale and a motorway link road was built across it.

It was filled in at Castleton and a motorway  was built across it.

It was filled in at Failsworth and a supermarket was built across it.

 

And two long sections at the Manchester end were infilled, and paved over just below water level, so that the channel remained as a shallow water feature through redeveloped local authority housing. Which meant on the one hand that the supermarket trolleys were now visible poking out of the water, but on the other hand the canal route was intact and remained available for restoration.

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On 21/07/2018 at 22:23, David Mack said:

Tuel Lane deep lock is on the site of the original Lock 4. Lock 3 was where the tunnel is, under Tuel Lane itself. You can still see part of the lock stonework below the concrete walls just above water level.

 

This isn't quite right. The new Tuel Lane Lock is located between the original Locks 3 and 4.

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