CRT License discount

[eco-boat]

I've been told (I think at this years Crick show) that you can qualify for a discount on your CRT license if your boat has a permanently installed electric drive. Is this true, and do hybrid drive systems qualify too?

My boat (yet to be built) will have a standard diesel drive plus a 10kW motor driving a pulley wheel on my prop shaft. This gives me electric drive, diesel drive, or both together. Does this qualify for any license discounts?

 

Regards,

 

     Mark

[Alan de Enfield]

Do a search on the C&RT website for 'Licence Review'

 

The discounts available have (or are about to) change as a result of the review, but from memory you may qualify for something.

 

This was the 'rule' issued in 2015 and as far as I know current up to the review (it may still be the rule)

 

Electric Motor 25% discount if the Boat has an electric motor as its sole means of propulsion.

 

 

Edit to Add :

 

Found the results of the review :

 

2.9 The consultation showed that a majority supported retention of the existing range of discounts which – given the small number of boaters who directly benefit from these discounts – is assumed not simply to reflect the direct self-interest of the affected groups. The one area where consultation responses were not clearly supportive is Electric Boat discounts where many felt that the boats benefitting would rarely meet a more holistic measure of environmental impact.

 

2.11 The 20% Electric Boat discount will be retained pending the Trust undertaking a swift review of options to consider how to apply any future discount in a way that would more effectively recognise, and encourage, more environmentally-friendly boating. It is intended that this will be completed, and any changes to the Electric Boat discount will be announced, by April 2019.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Rick-n-Jo]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Electric Motor 25% discount if the Boat has an electric motor as its sole means of propulsion.

My interpretation of this, and I stress it's only mine, is that if the boat can be propelled by a diesel engine OR an electric motor(a parallel hybrid) then the electric is not the sole means of propulsion.

Our boat has a diesel generator that charges a battery bank. The battery can also be charged by solar or shore power.  The electric drive moves the boat, with or without the generator running (a series hybrid) so the electric is the sole means of propulsion, the Genny is just one possible charging source. On that basis we claim the discount.

[eco-boat]

2 minutes ago, Rick-n-Jo said:

My interpretation of this, and I stress it's only mine, is that if the boat can be propelled by a diesel engine OR an electric motor(a parallel hybrid) then the electric is not the sole means of propulsion.

Our boat has a diesel generator that charges a battery bank. The battery can also be charged by solar or shore power.  The electric drive moves the boat, with or without the generator running (a series hybrid) so the electric is the sole means of propulsion, the Genny is just one possible charging source. On that basis we claim the discount.

Yes, I agree. So it appears that I won't qualify which is a shame when I'll have over 5.5kW of solar PV and will do 90% of my travelling on the electric motor.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, eco-boat said:

Yes, I agree. So it appears that I won't qualify which is a shame when I'll have over 5.5kW of solar PV and will do 90% of my travelling on the electric motor.

Then why not save £5000 (?) and don't fit an engine. 

Fit a generator to keep the batteries topped up for the 9 months of the year when Solar won't be enough to keep you moving.

18 minutes ago, Rick-n-Jo said:

My interpretation of this, and I stress it's only mine, is that if the boat can be propelled by a diesel engine OR an electric motor(a parallel hybrid) then the electric is not the sole means of propulsion.

In my mind there can be no other interpretation of 'sole means of propulsion'.

 

[ditchcrawler]

Are the rules for the EA the same, I see you are planning on being on the Thames

[Chewbacka]

2 hours ago, Rick-n-Jo said:

My interpretation of this, and I stress it's only mine, is that if the boat can be propelled by a diesel engine OR an electric motor(a parallel hybrid) then the electric is not the sole means of propulsion.

Our boat has a diesel generator that charges a battery bank. The battery can also be charged by solar or shore power.  The electric drive moves the boat, with or without the generator running (a series hybrid) so the electric is the sole means of propulsion, the Genny is just one possible charging source. On that basis we claim the discount.

Which is why the licence review group I was part of felt that the discount was not justified as much of the electric power will be from a diesel generator which is hardly environmentally friendly.

[Alan de Enfield]

25 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Which is why the licence review group I was part of felt that the discount was not justified as much of the electric power will be from a diesel generator which is hardly environmentally friendly.

In my mind there are even wider concerns about the 'friendliness' of all electric boats - follow the supply chain backwards and the 'costs' are horrific.

 

A short excerpt from an article :

 

As countries the world over legislate to phase out petrol and diesel cars, attention is turning to the environmental impact of mining the materials needed for electric vehicle batteries.

This additional scrutiny has largely focused on ethical concerns with cobalt and lithium supply chains, despite Tesla CEO Elon Musk’s observation last year that the lithium ion batteries his vehicles use are mostly made of nickel and graphite, with lithium itself merely “the salt on the salad”.

But the extraction of nickel – predominately mined in Australia, Canada, Indonesia, Russia and the Philippines – comes at an environmental and health cost.

Plumes of sulphur dioxide choking the skies, churned earth blanketed in cancerous dust, rivers running blood-red – environmental campaigners have painted a grim picture of the nickel mines and smelters feeding the electric vehicle industry.

The Philippines this year closed or suspended 17 nickel mines because of environmental concerns.

 

Click on the 'links' (in red in the text) for examples and supporting information.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Chewbacka]

Not to mention the environmental devastation from mining rare earth materials to make the magnets for the electric motors.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/aug/07/china-rare-earth-village-pollution 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Not to mention the environmental devastation from mining rare earth materials to make the magnets for the electric motors.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/aug/07/china-rare-earth-village-pollution 

Owners of electric cars and boats should be charged an 'environmental fine' of £5000 per year to contribute towards  clean up of the planet they are so happy to pollute.

[Chewbacka]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Owners of electric cars and boats should be charged an 'environmental fine' of £5000 per year to contribute towards  clean up of the planet they are so happy to pollute.

But the great think about electric propulsion is that the environmental destruction is in other peoples countries and well out of view.  Even locally, the power station emissions look reasonably clean and most of it blows out of the UK, so for most people it's not a problem, so being 'green' is good for the uk but not the planet..................

 

As an aside, if sea levels were to rise I would not have to drive as far to get to the sea.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Chewbacka said:

But the great think about electric propulsion is that the environmental destruction is in other peoples countries and well out of view.  Even locally, the power station emissions look reasonably clean and most of it blows out of the UK, so for most people it's not a problem, so being 'green' is good for the uk but not the planet..................

 

As an aside, if sea levels were to rise I would not have to drive as far to get to the sea.

We are only 29 feet ASL, hence the boat(s)

[eco-boat]

I think it is not a balanced case to rule out one technology because of its manufacturing cost. If you want to do that and be fair, you need to do it for everything (which we probably should do). Everything from cement to steel to diesel engines to TVs has an environmental cost. Your average smartphone contains a dozen rare elements and we're close to running out of most of them.

It may be a case of 'burying one's head in the sand' over manufacturing but to be able to travel the UK canal network using no fossil fuels has got to be considered a good thing.

I can do that with my boat. I just need the diesel engine to get me upstream on a river. The electric drive isn't capable of that.

 

     Mark

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, eco-boat said:

 but to be able to travel the UK canal network using no fossil fuels has got to be considered a good thing.

 

Get a horse...

[eco-boat]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

Get a horse...

That's another form of solar power isn't it?

[Athy]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

In my mind there can be no other interpretation of 'sole means of propulsion'.

 

A pedalo, perhaps?

[MtB]

Electric boats strike me frankly, as a stupid idea.  One passed me the other day and I briefly chatted with the owner and they said its LOVELY cruising in total silence. But when they moor up they have to run the diesel engine for three hours to re-charge the batts. Or stay put for three days while the solar tops them up. 

[Robbo]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Electric boats strike me frankly, as a stupid idea.  One passed me the other day and I briefly chatted with the owner and they said its LOVELY cruising in total silence. But when they moor up they have to run the diesel engine for three hours to re-charge the batts. Or stay put for three days while the solar tops them up. 

But you don’t have to be on the boat when you run the engine

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Robbo said:

But you don’t have to be on the boat when you run the engine

 

Excellent point! Run your engine and annoy th neighbours only when you're not on board. The PERFECT solution.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Robbo said:

But you don’t have to be on the boat when you run the engine

It must get expensive having to go and eat/drink out every night.

Presumably at the nights draw in you get, less sunlight, less solar charging, more generator time, and longer in the pub.

[Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It must get expensive having to go and eat/drink out every night.

Presumably at the nights draw in you get, less sunlight, less solar charging, more generator time, and longer in the pub.

Peaceful tho.

[Lily Rose]

The thing that always strikes me as being a big advantage with electric propulsion is that, AFAIK, it only consumes power when the boat (car, whatever) is actually moving. All that time spent waiting for locks, and sitting in locks, is not using fuel of any kind and therefore not polluting the atmosphere.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Lily Rose said:

The thing that always strikes me as being a big advantage with electric propulsion is that, AFAIK, it only consumes power when the boat (car, whatever) is actually moving. All that time spent waiting for locks, and sitting in locks, is not using fuel of any kind and therefore not polluting the atmosphere.

 

And what do you think about the need to run your engine for hours on end to recharge the batts whilst moored?

[eco-boat]

Running a diesel engine to charge your batteries is not a great thing, but it's no worse than using diesel for propulsion. The advantage of an electric drive is that it gives the possibility of getting free electricity from solar pv, and of course you can also charge them from land electricity, which is what the Dutch do.

[Lily Rose]

I wasn't suggesting that it's necessarily a good idea overall, or that I wish I had one.

 

Like most things there are pros and cons.

 

Peace and quiet while cruising (but not when generating) is one, not using fuel whilst stationary is another. I fully accept that there are disadvantages that may well outweigh those advantages.

 

And I hate running my engine to charge batteries which is why I try to cruise a few hours everyday and why I fitted solar panels before my first full summer of boating.