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Tv licence dilemna


bastion

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37 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

All of the enthusiasm shown for BBC radio stations isn't actually that relevant since I don't need any licence to listen to any of the stations, whether on the internet or on FM (DAB being a failing technology, rather like Beta video players, on its way out before it even came in:unsure:).

 

Missing the point by a country mile! 

 

Without the tv licence fee income, none of the bbc radio stations would exist for you to listen to by any method. 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Missing the point by a country mile! 

 

Without the tv licence fee income, none of the bbc radio stations would exist for you to listen to by any method. 

 

 

Precisely.

In what way is DAB a "failing technology"? These radios seem to be increasingly popular. I have a Roberts one and we have a cheaper model in the bedroom at home. Both work very well, with clear reception, and can receive stations that we can't get on MW, LW or FM. As the saying goes, "What's not to like"?

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1 minute ago, Athy said:

Precisely.

In what way is DAB a "failing technology"? These radios seem to be increasingly popular. I have a Roberts one and we have a cheaper model in the bedroom at home. Both work very well, with clear reception, and can receive stations that we can't get on MW, LW or FM. As the saying goes, "What's not to like"?

The power consumption for one, and the need for an external aerial for two (in my case anyway) 

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3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The power consumption for one, and the need for an external aerial for two (in my case anyway) 

I've no idea whether they consume more electricity than other radios. As for aerials, my Roberts works just fine anywhere in the house. On the boat, DAB and normal radios both need placing near a door to achieve good reception, we've not noticed that one system is better than the other. We haven't tried an outside aerial.

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1 minute ago, Athy said:

I've no idea whether they consume more electricity than other radios. As for aerials, my Roberts works just fine anywhere in the house. On the boat, DAB and normal radios both need placing near a door to achieve good reception, we've not noticed that one system is better than the other. We haven't tried an outside aerial.

My Roberts dab is just used for streaming radio, because I'm too tight to buy an external aerial. 

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41 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

My Roberts dab is just used for streaming radio, because I'm too tight to buy an external aerial. 

What does "streaming radio" mean? The same as receiving radio? If so, well that's what radios do.

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8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Missing the point by a country mile! 

 

Without the tv licence fee income, none of the bbc radio stations would exist for you to listen to by any method. 

 

 

I think that you rather miss the point in that, although the radio stations may be financed by TV licence income, none of that comes from radio listeners who don't have a TV licence, you don't need a TV licence to listen to the radio. Whilst I'm happy for these stations to exist, I don't actually listen to them very often.

 

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Precisely.

In what way is DAB a "failing technology"? These radios seem to be increasingly popular. I have a Roberts one and we have a cheaper model in the bedroom at home. Both work very well, with clear reception, and can receive stations that we can't get on MW, LW or FM. As the saying goes, "What's not to like"?

Have you tried listening to DAB on a car radio? absolutely crap. Rather than occasionally fading a bit as FM will do, if it loses any signal it just cuts out to irritating whines and squeaks. Internet radio quite simply knocks spots off it for clarity and since cars are now being made with available Wifi that is where radio will be going. I wouldn't waste any money getting a DAB radio which you say you can get stations that you can't get on other frequencies, with internet radio you don't even have to be in the area (or country) where the transmissions are broadcast (you could listen to Devon radio stations in Scotland). When they brought out DAB the intention was that by now we'd all be listening to it and all analogue transmissions would have closed down, that hasn't happened because it is rubbish and will now be superceded.

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3 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I think that you rather miss the point in that, although the radio stations may be financed by TV licence income, none of that comes from radio listeners who don't have a TV licence, you don't need a TV licence to listen to the radio. Whilst I'm happy for these stations to exist, I don't actually listen to them very often.

 

Have you tried listening to DAB on a car radio? absolutely crap. Rather than occasionally fading a bit as FM will do, if it loses any signal it just cuts out to irritating whines and squeaks. Internet radio quite simply knocks spots off it for clarity and since cars are now being made with available Wifi that is where radio will be going. I wouldn't waste any money getting a DAB radio which you say you can get stations that you can't get on other frequencies, with internet radio you don't even have to be in the area (or country) where the transmissions are broadcast (you could listen to Devon radio stations in Scotland). When they brought out DAB the intention was that by now we'd all be listening to it and all analogue transmissions would have closed down, that hasn't happened because it is rubbish and will now be superceded.

DAB on my car radio works fine. It is true that when I drive cross-country in the Highlands, the radio sometimes automatically and seamlessly switches to FM, but equally the FM goes off at a couple of deep remote valleys too, so it is a hard test. Around town, on trunk roads etc  DAB is flawless.

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We only use DAB now as the stations we listen to are only available on DAB or online and in to tight to have a phone contact with unlimited data so whilst my car can do internet radio I'm not paying the phone bill. In the car, at home and on the boat we don't have any issues with reception.

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DAB is fine for speech  radio,  however the bit rate on ALL music stations in the UK is far to low for serious listening, FM is far better. Much like comparing MP3 to CD.

Edited by Loddon
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1 minute ago, Loddon said:

DAB is fine for speech  radio,  however the bit rate on ALL music stations in the UK is far to low for serious listening, FM is far better. Much like comparing MP3 to CD.

Yes however it is an issue or not depending on the quality of the equipment you are listening with. I suggest that using a car radio or portable radio, the difference is pretty undetectable. And of course this is why vinyl is enjoying a comeback - even the bitrate on a CD is not great if you are an audiophile.

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14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

DAB is fine for speech  radio,  however the bit rate on ALL music stations in the UK is far to low for serious listening, FM is far better. Much like comparing MP3 to CD.

 

Yes this is very sad. The tiny minority of serious audiophiles who enjoy the absolutely the top quality sound available from FM broadcasts received on high end equipment are being totally ignored by the BBC in the dash for for mediocre MP3-quaility DAB radio. 

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1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

DAB on my car radio works fine. It is true that when I drive cross-country in the Highlands, the radio sometimes automatically and seamlessly switches to FM, but equally the FM goes off at a couple of deep remote valleys too, so it is a hard test. Around town, on trunk roads etc  DAB is flawless.

Can only agree, the DAB reception on my car radio is excellent and gives me a much wider choice of stations.

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58 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes this is very sad. The tiny minority of serious audiophiles who enjoy the absolutely the top quality sound available from FM broadcasts received on high end equipment are being totally ignored by the BBC in the dash for for mediocre MP3-quaility DAB radio. 

You can always use the Internet streams for better audio quality if you want.

 

https://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/radio/other/streaming_codecs_bitrates

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Never mentioned (and not unreasonably) is that the sound quality on Freeview's radio channels is good quality. However that does require an aerial - so norra lot of use if you listen while on the move. 

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4 hours ago, Robbo said:

You can always use the Internet streams for better audio quality if you want.

 

https://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/radio/other/streaming_codecs_bitrates

Nothing in that list comes close to decent quality even 320kbs.

Yes I'm an audio snob but audio is what I've done for a living all of my life.

The only streaming service near a decent quality is way to expensive for me.

I do use MP3 and DAB but only for background listening, even some FM stations have to much audio compression making them unpleasant on a decent system.

 

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14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Nothing in that list comes close to decent quality even 320kbs.

Yes I'm an audio snob but audio is what I've done for a living all of my life.

The only streaming service near a decent quality is way to expensive for me.

I do use MP3 and DAB but only for background listening, even some FM stations have to much audio compression making them unpleasant on a decent system.

 

FM is lower quality. The only reason some people prefer FM is because it sounds warmer, this is due to the high frequency range tails off unlike CD/AAC where even though the frequency can go higher it’s a cut off which can make it sound brighter.

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7 hours ago, nicknorman said:

DAB on my car radio works fine. It is true that when I drive cross-country in the Highlands, the radio sometimes automatically and seamlessly switches to FM, but equally the FM goes off at a couple of deep remote valleys too, so it is a hard test. Around town, on trunk roads etc  DAB is flawless.

Looking at this coverage map ( http://www.ukdigitalradio.com/coverage/postcodesearch/  ) your experience in Scotland seems interesting since most of Scotland (except between Glasgow and Edinburgh and up the East coast) doesn't seem to have very much coverage. Wales looks a bit of a desert as well. The issues I've had with DAB are also explained by the coverage map since the areas I've hired cars with DAB radio that was a waste of time was in Oxfordshire,Wiltshire,Dorset and the South Hams, all of which apparently have crap coverage. Given that they were supposed to have started switching off analogue transmissions in 2015 to have originally finished by about now, whereas they are now talking about possibly starting to switch off by 2020, it would suggest that take-up hasn't been as high as they were hoping.

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10 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Looking at this coverage map ( http://www.ukdigitalradio.com/coverage/postcodesearch/  ) your experience in Scotland seems interesting since most of Scotland (except between Glasgow and Edinburgh and up the East coast) doesn't seem to have very much coverage. Wales looks a bit of a desert as well. The issues I've had with DAB are also explained by the coverage map since the areas I've hired cars with DAB radio that was a waste of time was in Oxfordshire,Wiltshire,Dorset and the South Hams, all of which apparently have crap coverage. Given that they were supposed to have started switching off analogue transmissions in 2015 to have originally finished by about now, whereas they are now talking about possibly starting to switch off by 2020, it would suggest that take-up hasn't been as high as they were hoping.

I suspect car radio types used has much to do with the delay in switching off analogue.  In most cars these days you can't easily just replace the radio with one from Halfords as they are built in to reduce theft.  I have'nt looked at a new car for a year or so, but certainly a year or so ago many cars were being sold with FM-only radios.  Switching off FM would leave a lot of disgruntled car owners.

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34 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Given that they were supposed to have started switching off analogue transmissions in 2015 to have originally finished by about now, whereas they are now talking about possibly starting to switch off by 2020, it would suggest that take-up hasn't been as high as they were hoping.

It was probably one of those "official" announcements calculated to shock and cause panic to a large number of people. Compare and contrast the announcement, some five years ago, that cheques would be phased out by 2018. I'm pleased to report that I have paid my utility bills by cheque this month, as normal.

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1 hour ago, Robbo said:

FM is lower quality. The only reason some people prefer FM is because it sounds warmer, this is due to the high frequency range tails off unlike CD/AAC where even though the frequency can go higher it’s a cut off which can make it sound brighter.

FM frequency range  is 30Hz to 15kHz does digital streaming exceed this ? I agree that FM is compressed which is why it sounds warmer but that's not the same thing as frequency range.

 

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