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Mooring in Marina unlicenced


Jacobyte

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On 18/07/2018 at 12:47, mayalld said:

 What DonCorleone, Higgs and co habitually ignore is that no matter how hard they argue that this charge by CRT or that charge by CRT is wrong, and we shouldn't pay it, . . . . .             . . . . . .                  . . . . . .

I've said nothing of charges related to marinas in this thread or elsewhere, apart from pointing out that sound business and commercial practice would see the owners and/or operators of marinas situated alongside the Canal & River Trust's canals charging the Trust for providing additional reservoir capacity.  

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On 19/07/2018 at 13:08, mayalld said:

And do you feel that this means that your share of maintenance should be less?

Assuming that you're speaking of canal maintenance, the answer to that is I have no responsibility or obligation to contribute anything towards it other than through taxes.  

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32 minutes ago, DonCorleone said:

I've said nothing of charges related to marinas in this thread or elsewhere, apart from pointing out that sound business and commercial practice would see the owners and/or operators of marinas situated alongside the Canal & River Trust's canals charging the Trust for providing additional reservoir capacity.  

Mmmmmm.., I wonder where the marina got the water from in the first place, could it have been from the canal?

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1 hour ago, DonCorleone said:

I've said nothing of charges related to marinas in this thread or elsewhere, apart from pointing out that sound business and commercial practice would see the owners and/or operators of marinas situated alongside the Canal & River Trust's canals charging the Trust for providing additional reservoir capacity.  

Indeed so.

 

Of course, "sound business and commercial practice" could just see CRT deciding that they don't want that additional reservoir capacity, and putting in the stop planks.

 

That is how business works. You may think that what you have to sell is worth money, but unless somebody wants to buy it, it isn't worth a penny.

 

Equally, you may feel that what CRT is selling (access to the network) isn't worth what they charge for it. However, that just means that you don't want to buy what they are selling, and you can exercise your option not to  buy it. Of course, if you do that, in go the planks.

 

Perhaps you should go to the pub tonight, and demand to be paid for testing their beer, rather than paying them for it. Make sure you get a taxi home, and charge the driver for your services as a companion.

 

  • Haha 1
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I was thinking about this reservoir argument whilst steering today when the penny dropped. The typical marina is only a few feet deep. Even a socking great big and deep one like Mercia has very little impact on the pound between Dallow Lane and Stenson, where balancing is a problem because of the discrepancy between the two locks. 

 

What is not trivial is the extra loss through evaporation at this time of year, so CRT are still providing water to the marina.

 

But all this argument is pointless. It's like the Brexit debate, the issues are not the rational ones about economics or business practice, they are emotional.

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9 hours ago, Rob VP said:

I didn't know this.  I was planning to get a short term license  for my boat as it is currently in a marina connected to CRT waters, but in two months I will be moving it to other waters.

If you intend to use the boat significantly  in August and September you can buy a three month license now. A month will be wasted if you do not require October but is still possibly a sensible option. 

Edited by MartynG
Phone typing error under influence of wine.
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3 hours ago, mayalld said:

 

 

  Of course, "sound business and commercial practice" could just see CRT deciding that they don't want that additional reservoir capacity, and putting in the      stop planks.

 

Whilst I concede that the likes of the C&RT may well do as you suggest, such action on the part of a navigation authority forced into restricting the use of or closing down their canals through lack of water by mid-Summer can hardly be described as "sound business and commercial practice". 

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Here is a marina that I've used in the past, Mercia marina. It is near my home town of Derby. You can clearly see a before and after photo showing it was an area of water, before a channel was constructed over private land to the canal. This area was an area of water, without the use of a canal. You will be able to see the line of the canal and the access point. On one side private property, on the other the canal.

Mercia Marina before construction.PNG

Mercia Marina after construction.PNG

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3 hours ago, BruceinSanity said:

I was thinking about this reservoir argument whilst steering today when the penny dropped. The typical marina is only a few feet deep. Even a socking great big and deep one like Mercia has very little impact on the pound between Dallow Lane and Stenson, where balancing is a problem because of the discrepancy between the two locks. 

 

In assessing/calculating the effect on pound level of taking 'x' number of lockfuls of water from a pound, the depth of the pound and the depth of any connected reservoir capacity at the same retention level has no effect whatsoever. The one and only factor which does have an effect is the total water surface area of the pound plus any directly connected reservoir capacity at the same retention level. 

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7 minutes ago, Tom766 said:

Dunno what the negative comments are about.  If he's not using the waterways and sitting in a marina why buy a licence he doesn't need!!

 

May I suggest you actually read the thread?

 

Then you'll understand why he needs a licence in most marinas.

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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

May I suggest you actually read the thread?

 

Then you'll understand why he needs a licence in most marinas.

 

A licence is only required by law on a CRT waterway.

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Strictly speaking, boats making use of the canals are obliged under the law to be licensed, whereas boats enjoying the common law public right of navigation still applicable to the Trust's river waterways satisfy the law's demands by simply carrying a annual registration certificate, which for some reason known best to the Trust's decision makers is misleadingly presented and sold to boaters as a 'Rivers only Licence'. 
This throws up something of an anomaly in that whilst promoting the myth that the registration certificate the law demands for using a pleasure boat on a river waterway is a type of discounted Licence, the Trust does not insist on compliance with the National Access Agreement provisions on 'Licences' in respect of boats moored in marinas located on rivers under their control.   
Edited by DonCorleone
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10 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

A licence is only required by law on a CRT waterway.

 

Well obviously a licnence is required in a marina if the marina T&Cs demand it.

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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12 minutes ago, gunsmoke said:

I have correspondence from CRT that indicates that a marina is private water and outside the jurisdiction of CRT, even to the extent that it is considered to be 'off our water' from the point of view of seeking to remove a boat from 'their' water.  That is what is stated, whether correct or not I don't know and have had no reply when questioning it.

If correct then their requirement of a marina owner is dubious to say the least.

Given that we know that CRT law depends on variables such as which way the wind blows who would be correct if the marina owner refused to comply with CRT's requirement - which many do? 

Have this piece of C&RT correspondence framed and take great care of it. Any form of written material on or within which they are telling the truth is a rare and highly collectible item and certain to increase in value.

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