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Mooring in Marina unlicenced


Jacobyte

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11 hours ago, nikvah said:

Just reiterating but...CRT supply the water that floats your boat, this costs them. No locks, no level, no marina. The license is only a contribution CRT investments and govt funding keep us afloat.

Far from 'costing' the Trust, the water held in marinas sited on their canals costs them nothing, and in reality is additional reservoir capacity serving the pound in which the marina is located and any lower level connected pounds. From both a practical and a commercial standpoint, the marina owners/operators should be charging the Trust for canal water storage.

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1 minute ago, DonCorleone said:

 From both a practical and a commercial standpoint, the marina owners/operators should be charging the Trust for canal water storage.

Which would just mean CRT charged more for access to the canal.

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1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

……. only the adverts.

Not always.

Harefield moorings for example are on the river Colne (controlled by Thames Water) which in turn feeds The Grand Union.

Which Harefield moorings are on the Colne? Certainly not the marina.

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42 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Which would just mean CRT charged more for access to the canal.

 What DonCorleone, Higgs and co habitually ignore is that no matter how hard they argue that this charge by CRT or that charge by CRT is wrong, and we shouldn't pay it, in the final analysis, CRT can't just say "fair enough" if half their boater income vanishes.

 

All that would happen is that they would increase the licence fee to get that income back.

 

The impact on boaters overall would be nil. The impact on individual boaters might not be nil.

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12 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

The old stink 'ole moorings on the River Colne next to Maple Cross Sewerage Farm.

Ok, more mill end/Rickmansworth than Harefield. I'd assumed that the reason no licence was required was due to it being private, didn't realise it came under the the administration of the environment agency. 

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11 hours ago, DonCorleone said:

Far from 'costing' the Trust, the water held in marinas sited on their canals costs them nothing, and in reality is additional reservoir capacity serving the pound in which the marina is located and any lower level connected pounds. From both a practical and a commercial standpoint, the marina owners/operators should be ckharging the Trust for canal water storage.

But if the lock below the marina is not maintained (at a cost) the water in that pound drains out and the Marina is a big dry dock.

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2 hours ago, nikvah said:

But if the lock below the marina is not maintained (at a cost) the water in that pound drains out and the Marina is a big dry dock.

All locks require maintenance, irrespective of whether or not they are in the vicinity of a marina.

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7 hours ago, DonCorleone said:

All locks require maintenance, irrespective of whether or not they are in the vicinity of a marina.

 

Indeed they do, and everybody pays towards that.

 

Except you seem to feel that your share of the ANNUAL cost is less than others, because you are in a marina for 6 months.

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On 17/07/2018 at 09:26, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And the 'old answer' - "if you've nothing to hide what's the problem ?"

 

Does anyone really think that they are not being monitored much of the time ?

Your phone can be tracked,

The British Security Industry Authority (BSIA) estimated there are now up to 5.9 million closed-circuit television cameras in the country

Your car number plate is being scanned numerous times a day

Your credit / debit card history shows where you have been, what you have purchased

Loyalty cards ……………..

 

etc etc etc

 

Its the world we live in and the penalty we pay for technology.

Image result for how many cctv cameras in uk

 

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3 minutes ago, mayalld said:

And do you feel that this means that your share of maintenance should be less?

The way around that (for those that feel they are paying more than their share) is to have a 'pay-by-mile' system.

 

Similar to increasing taxation on fuel - 'them as drives the furthest pay the most'.

 

Simples !!!

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37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The way around that (for those that feel they are paying more than their share) is to have a 'pay-by-mile' system.

 

Similar to increasing taxation on fuel - 'them as drives the furthest pay the most'.

 

Simples !!!

I rather suspect that a system that rewards non-compliant CCers would could as a shot in the foot!

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6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The way around that (for those that feel they are paying more than their share) is to have a 'pay-by-mile' system.

 

Similar to increasing taxation on fuel - 'them as drives the furthest pay the most'.

 

Simples !!!

And a toll for each lock and aqueduct as they cost a lot more than level canals to maintain.  On balance, let’s stay as we are.

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On 18/07/2018 at 11:16, mayalld said:

According to CRT, boats in such marinas are not entitled to short term licences.

Nevertheless the C&RT do sell short term licences to those boat owners  and by doing so have established a practice over many years with many hundreds and probably thousands of short term license issued. Even the C&RT are not stupid enough to refuse money when it is offered.

 

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45 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Nevertheless the C&RT do sell short term licences to those boat owners  and by doing so have established a practice over many years with many hundreds and probably thousands of short term license issued. Even the C&RT are not stupid enough to refuse money when it is offered.

 

It was decided that, the short term licences will only be issued to boats coming off non-connected non-C&RT waters (the sea, the lakes, etc) and not from marinas alongside C&RT waterways, and already floating on C&RT water. See the 2015 T&Cs

 

Short Term Licences
Licences for periods of one month or less are for Boats visiting our Waterways for short periods from other navigations or coastal waters. They are available for purchase online from http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/licensing .
Short term licences are not available to Continuous Cruisers, boats floating in marinas or on moorings connected to Trust Waterways.

 

The recent licence consultation conclusions regarding short-term licences were :

 

2.13 Nearly eight in ten of those responding to this question felt it was fair to withdraw one-day licences, but retain one week, one month, or thirty-day flexible ‘explorer’ licences, and price these proportionately higher than a full licence to reflect the greater administrative costs.
2.14 As a result, the Trust has decided to withdraw one-day licences but retain all other short-term licences.

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It was decided that, in the future, the short term licences will only be issued to boats coming off non-connected non-C&RT waters (the sea, the lakes, etc) and not from marinas alongside C&RT waterways, and already floating on C&RT water.

I think that has always been so. But it has not prevented the sale of short term licenses.

Edited by MartynG
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20 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The way around that (for those that feel they are paying more than their share) is to have a 'pay-by-mile' system.

 

Similar to increasing taxation on fuel - 'them as drives the furthest pay the most'.

 

Simples !!!

This would run into problems if they were seen to be encouraging people to move further as a condition of licence and to then charge more for each extra mile. 

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Just now, MartynG said:

I think that has always been so. But it has not prevented the sale of short term licenses.

No it hasn't - when my boat was in Shobnal (non-NAA Marina) it just got a 1-day, 1-week, etc licence for when it 'ventured out'.

That option is no longer available.

 

I don't know if such Marinas are now not allowed to sell the short-term licences (I know Shobnal did, Colwick did, Newark did) as the C&RT documentation states 'apply on line'

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2 minutes ago, BWM said:

This would run into problems if they were seen to be encouraging people to move further as a condition of licence and to then charge more for each extra mile. 

You must comply with the licence conditions, and do as much or as little 'excess' mileage as you want.

 

But the licence would be issued 'FoC' so its just Pay-As-You-Go

It would take some calculation to be income neutral but

….(say)

the charge was £1 per mile they could travel 600-1000 miles for the same cost as the licence used to be.

maybe even a sliding scale (to encompass the non-movers) - £10 per mile for the 1st 50 miles, 50p per mile for the next 200 miles, 10p per mile thereafter

 

Its a simple thing to monitor with todays (dare I say the word ?) tracking equipment.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No it hasn't - when my boat was in Shobnal (non-NAA Marina) it just got a 1-day, 1-week, etc licence for when it 'ventured out'.

That option is no longer available.

 

I don't know if such Marinas are now not allowed to sell the short-term licences (I know Shobnal did, Colwick did, Newark did) as the C&RT documentation states 'apply on line'

I purchased a one day ticket in April this year. Presently on a six month.

Have just returned from 3 weeks on salty water. Can I claim a rebate?

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Its a simple thing to monitor with todays (dare I say the word ?) tracking equipment.

 

 

Could be a transponder but tgat would be expensive. A bar code or a secuity card read at every lock  might wirk. The technology already exists but I cannot imagine this level if technology being viable on the waterways.

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42 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It was decided that, the short term licences will only be issued to boats coming off non-connected non-C&RT waters (the sea, the lakes, etc) and not from marinas alongside C&RT waterways, and already floating on C&RT water. See the 2015 T&Cs

 

Short Term Licences
Licences for periods of one month or less are for Boats visiting our Waterways for short periods from other navigations or coastal waters. They are available for purchase online from http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/licensing .
Short term licences are not available to Continuous Cruisers, boats floating in marinas or on moorings connected to Trust Waterways.

 

The recent licence consultation conclusions regarding short-term licences were :

 

2.13 Nearly eight in ten of those responding to this question felt it was fair to withdraw one-day licences, but retain one week, one month, or thirty-day flexible ‘explorer’ licences, and price these proportionately higher than a full licence to reflect the greater administrative costs.
2.14 As a result, the Trust has decided to withdraw one-day licences but retain all other short-term licences.

 

 

I didn't know this.  I was planning to get a short term license  for my boat as it is currently in a marina connected to CRT waters, but in two months I will be moving it to other waters.

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3 minutes ago, Rob VP said:

I didn't know this.  I was planning to get a short term license  for my boat as it is currently in a marina connected to CRT waters, but in two months I will be moving it to other waters.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Speak to your current marina - According to MartynG they may issue you one (nod, nod) despite the 'rules'.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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