Stuck below Banbury due to low water, lift bridge 171 blocked by another boat.

[Lily Rose]

Given that CRT people have confirmed that the building site issue is with the legal people there must be some truth to it but it seems a mystery about why they are taking it. When I first heard about it, and realised it was a 2 mile pound down a foot judging by appearances, I did wonder how they could be making that much use of water for whatever purpose. So it didn't quite hang together.

 

The running down of water at night makes more sense (to me) in terms of explaining the levels given that the pound in question seemed to be a foot down whilst the pound below, which we are still on, seems to be absolutely fine. However, even that seems a bit strange if it is being done to help hirers get back as this only works if the hirers went south - any going north, like the one entering the low pound as we were leaving it, would then have problems getting back through that pound. 

 

Maybe the site are nicking water, and maybe someone is letting water down to the next pound but maybe there's also a leak somewhere (like on the summit this time last year) and it's the sum of all those things that is too blame. Could it be that the other issues are obscuring the real issue which is a leak that has not yet been found.

 

Having said all that, the CRT ladies told me yesterday that their app showed them that the Banbury pound was 0.4mm down which they said was probably due to the paddles being open to run some water down. If their level monitoring tech is so good wouldn't it help them identify exactly how much the pound was going down and, importantly, exactly when? For example, during site working hours and/or at night or, if it was a leak, every hour of the day and night.

 

[OldGoat]

2 hours ago, Lily Rose said:

Given that CRT people have confirmed that the building site issue is with the legal people there must be some truth to it but it seems a mystery about why they are taking it. When I first heard about it, and realised it was a 2 mile pound down a foot judging by appearances, I did wonder how they could be making that much use of water for whatever purpose. So it didn't quite hang together.

 

The running down of water at night makes more sense (to me) in terms of explaining the levels given that the pound in question seemed to be a foot down whilst the pound below, which we are still on, seems to be absolutely fine. However, even that seems a bit strange if it is being done to help hirers get back as this only works if the hirers went south - any going north, like the one entering the low pound as we were leaving it, would then have problems getting back through that pound. 

 

Maybe the site are nicking water, and maybe someone is letting water down to the next pound but maybe there's also a leak somewhere (like on the summit this time last year) and it's the sum of all those things that is too blame. Could it be that the other issues are obscuring the real issue which is a leak that has not yet been found.

 

Having said all that, the CRT ladies told me yesterday that their app showed them that the Banbury pound was 0.4mm down which they said was probably due to the paddles being open to run some water down. If their level monitoring tech is so good wouldn't it help them identify exactly how much the pound was going down and, importantly, exactly when? For example, during site working hours and/or at night or, if it was a leak, every hour of the day and night.

 

Couldn't resist 0.4mm is a very fine difference - CaRT must have some laboratory grade equipment out in the field.....

[Lily Rose]

8 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Couldn't resist 0.4mm is a very fine difference - CaRT must have some laboratory grade equipment out in the field.....

That's what I thought.

 

She said down 4 and I said "What, inches?" and she said "No, millimetres".

 

We were conversing across the canal so I suppose she could have said centimetres but I don't think so. Maybe she just got her units wrong. I doubt if it could have dropped 4cm due to paddles in such a short time though, not from such a long pound as Banbury.

 

[BruceinSanity]

3 hours ago, Lily Rose said:

That's what I thought.

 

She said down 4 and I said "What, inches?" and she said "No, millimetres".

 

We were conversing across the canal so I suppose she could have said centimetres but I don't think so. Maybe she just got her units wrong. I doubt if it could have dropped 4cm due to paddles in such a short time though, not from such a long pound as Banbury.

 

Are you sure she wasn't being ironic? AFAIK, the SCADA telemetry system works in metric, so would expect it to be centimetres.  Water takes time to flow, so opening paddles at each end of the lock would result in a noticeable drop in level near the lock, even in a long pound.

[Lily Rose]

4 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

Are you sure she wasn't being ironic? AFAIK, the SCADA telemetry system works in metric, so would expect it to be centimetres.  Water takes time to flow, so opening paddles at each end of the lock would result in a noticeable drop in level near the lock, even in a long pound.

That's probably it then, centimetres it is and I misheard, she got it wrong or she was being funny.

 

From what I've heard from other boats it's still very low today. I also heard from the lady at The Pig Place that levels are very low at Aynho according to another customer.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Lily Rose

[BWM]

10 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The building site nicking the water to make their cement doesn't really stack up on two counts. 

 

1) Good cement relies on good clean uncontaminated water. Brickies are actually dead picky about the water used to make the bricklaying mortar and larger volumes of water for for foundation concrete also needs to be very clean. It would be regarded as slapdash to the point of negligent to use canal water for making up mortar and concrete using canal water and the cement manufacturer will certainly void the guarantee on their cement. Any responsible building firm would insist on clean water direct from the mains or riosk HUGE liability in the future if the mortar and concrete fails to set to the expected and design strength.

 

2) The volumes of water involved will be trivial. I can't imagine more than a lockful of water a day being abstracted even if they are using it for making mortar and concrete.

 

And on a different point, the yard at Twyford is a hire base. If they are running water f=down in the night I bet it is so their hire boats get back when needed for the next hirers.

On top of that, most cement and mortar is delivered ready mixed, either poured by lorries or in silo shaped storage in the case of mortar. I can't remember the last site I saw with bulk mixing equipment?

[Alan de Enfield]

43 minutes ago, BWM said:

On top of that, most cement and mortar is delivered ready mixed, either poured by lorries or in silo shaped storage in the case of mortar. I can't remember the last site I saw with bulk mixing equipment?

The mortar I've seen used comes in big yellow 'deep, bath sized, tubs' (which make ideal field water troughs !!!)

[MtB]

46 minutes ago, BWM said:

I can't remember the last site I saw with bulk mixing equipment?

 

I see them all the time! Big cylindrical towers on the really large sites. 

[rgreg]

On the subject of low water levels on the Oxford, can anyone who knows this canal well predict whether there is any likelihood of the summit being closed in the next month due to the current dry weather conditions? (I seem to remember a recent post somewhere suggesting this may be the case). I know nobody can say for sure but just may have an idea based on past history. I am travelling rather a long way from the North to Cropredy for the festival and would hate to fall at the final hurdle! 

[BWM]

31 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I see them all the time! Big cylindrical towers on the really large sites. 

I was under the impression that those were delivered ready to go, the silo shaped things I mentioned in the post? I'm happy to be corrected if not.

Even so, filling one of these with water wouldn't have much effect on any but the shortest pounds. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by BWM

[mrsmelly]

17 minutes ago, rgreg said:

On the subject of low water levels on the Oxford, can anyone who knows this canal well predict whether there is any likelihood of the summit being closed in the next month due to the current dry weather conditions? (I seem to remember a recent post somewhere suggesting this may be the case). I know nobody can say for sure but just may have an idea based on past history. I am travelling rather a long way from the North to Cropredy for the festival and would hate to fall at the final hurdle! 

Its very rare for closure of any considerable length of time. Personaly I have never been more than a couple of hours stuck in any particular location. A vast number of hire boats ply the location paying plenty of fees and the fleet owners are very quick to act if water looks an issue.

17 hours ago, Lily Rose said:

I'm getting there, just very slowly. (Taking a leaf out of Nightwatch's book)

 

Where's all that water coming from.

 

I'm trying to time it to be in Abingdon next weekend but I don't want my 31 days to start too early in case I want to spend a long time down the Windsor end or, possibly, head up Lechlade way again afterwards and before the 31 days are up.

 

How long do you plan to be on the Thames?

Coming off tomorrow and back onto the ditch system. Too hot to travel today so did 4 hours and found a fab field middle of nowhere and no other boats, only space for one here ?

[Lily Rose]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

 

Coming off tomorrow and back onto the ditch system. Too hot to travel today so did 4 hours and found a fab field middle of nowhere and no other boats, only space for one here ?

Looks like we'll be passing each other soon then.

 

After lunch at the Pig Place (sadly they no longer do their superb breakfast all day) we came through Aynho. Levels looked fine, maybe she said Enslow (I often mix the two up). Have stopped near Chisnell Lift Bridge ready to go through Somerton Deep when we set off tomorrow morning.

[mrsmelly]

15 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

Looks like we'll be passing each other soon then.

 

After lunch at the Pig Place (sadly they no longer do their superb breakfast all day) we came through Aynho. Levels looked fine, maybe she said Enslow (I often mix the two up). Have stopped near Chisnell Lift Bridge ready to go through Somerton Deep when we set off tomorrow morning.

The best pork for the barby this side of Nagasaki!! I will be calling in for stuff next week.

[Tonka]

The only other low pound that we came across was between Dukes Lock and Roundham Lock

[Lily Rose]

8 minutes ago, Tonka said:

The only other low pound that we came across was between Dukes Lock and Roundham Lock

I spoke to a hirer in Banbury who said they had been held up there for an hour as two other boats were stuck there until more water came down.

[Nightwatch]

Catching us soon then. We are in Fenny Compton. Staying for a few days or more as I have to see my doctor and have some blood extracted. Oh., and a scan. And perhaps a night out with my three boys in Hampshire.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Nightwatch

[Dave123]

Used to moor on the Oxford and it normally doesn't close completely, the locks will just have restricted opening hours. Often 4 or 5 hours during the central part of the day

[MtB]

For the sheer amount of traffic passing me at Cropredy today, I can't see there being any restrictions continuing through Banbury.

[rgreg]

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

For the sheer amount of traffic passing me at Cropredy today, I can't see there being any restrictions continuing through Banbury.

Is it the festival traffic already beginning to arrive or just boats passing through?

[Lily Rose]

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

For the sheer amount of traffic passing me at Cropredy today, I can't see there being any restrictions continuing through Banbury.

I've spoken to several boaters who came South through the affected pound yesterday and there were no reports of anyone getting stuck any more but all said it was still very shallow and also mentioned scraping the bottom.

 

[Grassman]

We were heading north through Kidlington yesterday and the levels were very low. We just got through the Cherwell river lock (Shipton Weir?) before the two CRT ladies closed the lock for half an hour so they could flush some water down from the river. Hopefully that will have done the trick.

 

Despite the low levels we didn't encounter any problems, but we only draw 2ft, however around Thrupp there were lots of rusty and muddy bikes on the towpath. Presumably after having been in the canal bed for years they had now caused problems with boaters getting caught on them.

[Lily Rose]

25 minutes ago, Grassman said:

We were heading north through Kidlington yesterday and the levels were very low. We just got through the Cherwell river lock (Shipton Weir?) before the two CRT ladies closed the lock for half an hour so they could flush some water down from the river. Hopefully that will have done the trick.

 

Despite the low levels we didn't encounter any problems, but we only draw 2ft, however around Thrupp there were lots of rusty and muddy bikes on the towpath. Presumably after having been in the canal bed for years they had now caused problems with boaters getting caught on them.

I wonder if they were the same two ladies I spoke to on Saturday as they were about to walk up from bridge 170 to Banbury lock. Perhaps their current duties consist mainly of going up and down the Oxford running water down to keep it going before the hire fleets kick up a stink.

 

Thanks for the heads up re Kidlington. We should be in Thrupp Tuesday (probably) and through Kidlington at the end of the week. I'd keep an eye out for you if I knew your boat name.

 

[OldGoat]

18 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Its very rare for closure of any considerable length of time. Personaly I have never been more than a couple of hours stuck in any particular location. A vast number of hire boats ply the location paying plenty of fees and the fleet owners are very quick to act if water looks an issue.

Coming off tomorrow and back onto the ditch system. Too hot to travel today so did 4 hours and found a fab field middle of nowhere and no other boats, only space for one here ?

Hey - that's MY mooring - has been for many years - visitors keep orf..... (yes it's shallow / small trees  at both ends...

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Hey - that's MY mooring - has been for many years - visitors keep orf..... (yes it's shallow / small trees  at both ends...

Good guess but WRONG you old Goat ? Its the other one without the trees ?

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Good guess but WRONG you old Goat ? Its the other one without the trees ?

I haven't a clue about any spot (well below Oxford anyway) that's without trees - so your secret's safe with you, and I guess so's mine!