captain flint Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) I sent an enquiry to the folks at bimble and they sent me a link to a basket with what they reckon I need. http://click.bimblesolar.com/wf/click?upn=iQzGkz6GwKVnjfYsDWtViS2nqVxY6VvxNw3lGNx4-2FSS5-2FooTxOXPgD6ejIPYyrmOO-2F-2FZ9xYviClY3yc7fPSwgYdn3j28D5kwRIB1TDukDOfJTO0LHjjReHbhMPS-2F4d7lw8YD-2FZNn7wfY-2FuHioeMxRf1n6w3UPQLSU-2BgwIjUuPayAW9qXGLeauPGV51VM7TBR_tAklq2Mf0C5rGjkiXwrtnd0CGG1CAI4n3pvBY9TfcvPynr12LTN7dQpzhddiMahP-2FeHGrsm-2BVoV3L6MZVKN3jgyurf1Q6xw0Azy6NllaSDqthUkJwFeDr9BRxBMgj-2F7cNAlemWOHpL11pBVtXjj5c60HRFW5Kv-2FPOAj4TkgkcehrrJ5sg8SFq8QoWnyTN1rXf7KQtbRQeOE6acyUF45ObA-3D-3D Does it look OK? Seems OK to me but being ill informed and slightly thick I thought I should check. I want a little solar as back up and support rather than expecting too much from it. Prefer walk on for various reasons. Main thing is there's a little 12v computer fan vent in the toilet that needs to run. I am getting a low voltage cut off fitted, too, so hopefully won't have any nasty surprises. Edited July 14, 2018 by captain flint Forgot link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) Looks OK. Monitor and controller matched to the capacity of the panels. All the connectors splitters, wires and cable glands you are likely to need for a neat installation. How are you planning to split the panels, series, parallel, mixed series and parallel? It'll probably need a few other connectors for the connection to batteries. Jen Edited July 14, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 personally i would forget the DIN rail and the MCB and instead fit an automotive blade fuse Y holder. I assume this is for the controller to battery lead and if so it needs to be near batteries and that location may well get damp, under a cruiser stern running with condensation damp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard10002 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: personally i would forget the DIN rail and the MCB and instead fit an automotive blade fuse Y holder. I assume this is for the controller to battery lead and if so it needs to be near batteries and that location may well get damp, under a cruiser stern running with condensation damp! My guess is that Bimble specify it as a kind of on/off switch for the panels and, if so, it isnt actually necessary at all. I've got one of these: https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/waterproof-switchable-surface-mounted-circuit-breakers.html and find it handy if I want to switch the solar off - yesterday I wanted it off to have some welding done in the engine space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain flint Posted July 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 On 14/07/2018 at 12:01, Jen-in-Wellies said: Looks OK. Monitor and controller matched to the capacity of the panels. All the connectors splitters, wires and cable glands you are likely to need for a neat installation. How are you planning to split the panels, series, parallel, mixed series and parallel? It'll probably need a few other connectors for the connection to batteries. Jen I wish I knew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, captain flint said: I wish I knew! Each panel will have up to 48V on it when unloaded, but up to around 36V at optimum power. If all the panels are in series, then the total will be between 36x4 = 144V and 48*4 = 192V. However the solar controller has a maximum input voltage of 150V, so there is a high risk of exceeding this, or pushing towards the maximum and damaging the controller. If the panels are in parallel, then the voltage will be that of one panel, 36 to 48V in bright sun. However the current through the wires will be four times as high and can lead to resistive losses. A mix of series and parallel will give a voltage of 72 to 96V and mid range in the current. This is what I would go with if it was me setting up this array. Pics below. Note that some of these voltages are enough to give you quiet a jolt. Do your wiring with good opaque blankets covering the panels and take precautions. Jen Edited July 16, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scholar Gypsy Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 I have a pair of circuit breakers, on Bimble's advice. You can see the DIN rail towards the end of these photos. It's inside, not in the wet. It's quite handy to be able to turn the solar panels off safely, the connectors do say "not to be disconnected under load".... The other gadget I have just added is a temperature sensor that measures the termperature of the battery compartment. I would advise buying a crimping tool for the MC4 connectors, though youtune suggests you can manage without!https://nbsg.wordpress.com/2018/04/23/fitting-the-solar/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileypete Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) For big installs there's double pole solar DC isolators available: https://www.electricalguys.co.uk/salzer-dc-isolator-for-solar-installs-h226-81400-710n1.html If you squint at the pic you can just make out that each pole uses 2 contacts in series, I guess it's just a 4 pole switch rewired appropriately. For a modest 36V or 72V install a standard 2 pole MCB might work just fine. More info: http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=95968 Edit: Squinting at the above pic in this topic it looks like the breakers are rated 125V DC so that should be fine for the solar side. Edited July 16, 2018 by smileypete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 On 14/07/2018 at 11:51, captain flint said: I want a little solar as back up and support rather than expecting too much from it. Prefer walk on for various reasons £600 quid for that purpose seems hugely over the top to me. Walk on panels are higher cost - lower output. Why not consider a narrow standard panel - easily available from about 2' wide or a little more, so you can just walk past it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 49 minutes ago, Sea Dog said: £600 quid for that purpose seems hugely over the top to me. Walk on panels are higher cost - lower output. Why not consider a narrow standard panel - easily available from about 2' wide or a little more, so you can just walk past it. Also walk on, really means in soft shoes. Just because you can walk on them, doesn't really mean you should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain flint Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Robbo said: Also walk on, really means in soft shoes. Just because you can walk on them, doesn't really mean you should. I wasn't planning on walking on them, but it's good to know if you happen to misplace a foot it shouldn't matter, plus no trip hazard. Main thing is that I've heard of regular panels being nicked. Then again, I do have insurance, I guess... Thanks for all the help everyone, appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, captain flint said: Main thing is that I've heard of regular panels being nicked. Then again, I do have insurance, I guess... With the low price of panels these days, unless you have 'mega-watts' their value is probably less than your Insurance Excess, &/or the amount your premium will increase by over the next few years because of a claim. With panels that can be obtained at under 50p per watt, they are not really worth stealing because of the size and the likely hood they are miles from anywhere and cumbersome to carry to a truck (they won't fit in a car). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: With the low price of panels these days, unless you have 'mega-watts' their value is probably less than your Insurance Excess, &/or the amount your premium will increase by over the next few years because of a claim. With panels that can be obtained at under 50p per watt, they are not really worth stealing because of the size and the likely hood they are miles from anywhere and cumbersome to carry to a truck (they won't fit in a car). Didn't @leeco panels get knicked over winter tho, so yes it does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detling Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 I have heard the life expectancy of walk on / stick on panels is low a couple of years seems typical, mainly due to temperature ageing by being on a hot steel roof. They also perform poorly on sunny days because they get too hot, high temperature can halve the theoretical output. Rigid panels also drop amps when hot but being better ventilated you are looking at a 10% drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Smith Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 fit normal panels with corner mounting brackets fixed to the roof and if your worried about getting them nicked screw them on then round off the screw heads with a drill so they cant be unscrewed. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 On 14/07/2018 at 11:51, captain flint said: Prefer walk on for various reasons. Ordinary solar panels can be walked on too. And one quarter of the price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Ordinary solar panels can be walked on too. And one quarter of the price! Yeah, but then you don't get the lower output and a rusty roof.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Sea Dog said: Yeah, but then you don't get the lower output and a rusty roof.... I get plenty of output thanks..... 4 x 250W panels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, rusty69 said: I get plenty of output thanks..... 4 x 250W panels What, walk on stick downs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Sea Dog said: What, walk on stick downs? No. Although i do have a flexible panel too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 32 minutes ago, rusty69 said: No. Although i do have a flexible panel too. Then you missed my point, oh corroded one, which was that flexi walk ons, size for size and pound for pound, produce less than normal panels whilst creating a (potential) rust trap. That's not to say they don't have their place, and they can look better too. What's your flexi doing - BT and/or engine start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 And my point was that you can walk on standard glass panels too, if you are brve enough. Toughened glass is AMAZINGLY strong and, well, tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain flint Posted July 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, Detling said: I have heard the life expectancy of walk on / stick on panels is low a couple of years seems typical, mainly due to temperature ageing by being on a hot steel roof. Two years?? Right. That's certainly got me thinking. The rust issue, too. The fact the walk on ones look better was a factor, as well as the other things I mentioned. I don't necessarily mind if they are pound for pound less powerful and more expensive if they look better and are less delicate and it's a one off expenditure. Or at least, one that comes round a lot less often than every two years! Does that really sound about right? That would draw a line under the whole thing. 2 years would be way too short a life expectency to get my vote (and bucks) Edited July 18, 2018 by captain flint Typos. Oh, and one too many - even for me - exclamation marks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, captain flint said: Two years?? Right. That's certainly got me thinking. The rust issue, too. The fact the walk on ones look better was a factor, as well as the other things I mentioned. I don't necessarily mind if they are pound for pound less powerful and more expensive if they look better and are less delicate and it's a one off expenditure. Or at least, one that comes round a lot less often than every two years! Does that really sound about right? That would draw a line under the whole thing. 2 years would be way too short a life expectency to get my vote (and bucks) Add in having to re-paint your roof every time (2 years ??) that you replaced the panels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, captain flint said: Two years?? Right. That's certainly got me thinking. The rust issue, too. The fact the walk on ones look better was a factor, as well as the other things I mentioned. I don't necessarily mind if they are pound for pound less powerful and more expensive if they look better and are less delicate and it's a one off expenditure. Or at least, one that comes round a lot less often than every two years! Does that really sound about right? That would draw a line under the whole thing. 2 years would be way too short a life expectency to get my vote (and bucks) Rigid silicon panels from the major manufacturers have a life expectancy of at least 20 years. No one really knows for sure just how long they'll last, but that is the timescale used for calculating payback on big solar power installations. The oldest of mine are over ten years now. Jen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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