Lengthways trim

[Col_T]

We have a 57' boat which has a 150 gallon water tank at the bow, just behind the gas locker, and a 50 gallon diesel tank at the stern. The handrails are square section, integral to the hull (so it's not possible to wrap fingers right round), with scuppers / drain points cut into the handrail about 12' from the stern-end of the cabin.

 

The way the boat is trimmed at present, the scupper is about 3' too far forward and rust is starting to 'bubble' the paintwork were water pools as it is not draining away via the scuppers. I could get new scuppers cut into the handrails at the appropriate place, leaving a decision about whether or not to fill-in the originals, or I could just re-trim the boat so that water drains via the scuppers instead of pooling.

 

A couple of questions:

1:     Should the boat be trimmed with both water and diesel tanks empty, or does it not really matter?

2:     Presumably the boat should be trimmed so that the underside of the counter is slightly under water at all times?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Machpoint005]

It's not a Jonathan Wilson shell, is it? That's exactly the problem we had on a previous boat, and I've seen in on other Wilsons.

 

I'd say additional scuppers were the only way to go for a permanent solution, as the slight upwards curve of the roof and sides is the cause. 

[Col_T]

Yup, it's a Jonathan Wilson, so thanks for that!!

[PaulJ]

15 minutes ago, Col_T said:

A couple of questions:

1:     Should the boat be trimmed with both water and diesel tanks empty, or does it not really matter?

2:     Presumably the boat should be trimmed so that the underside of the counter is slightly under water at all times?

 

Thanks in advance.

Having recently retrimmed my boat (due to alterations made) I trimmed with a full water tank -because I wanted the gas locker drains to be just on the waterline but with the fuel tank nearly empty. Uxter plate is just touching the water at this point. Adding fuel pulls the back end into the water more and gives me marginally more on the gas locker drain.This isnt ideal on the roof drain but not bad enough to worry about (Evans shell)

 

[alan_fincher]

Mike Heywood / Evans & Sons shells also tend to have exactly this problem - as I think Mike Heywood influenced Jonathan Wilson, presumably this included putting the drain points in a daft position.

 

On our previous we had two holes cut through the grab rails, and lined with a piece of tube welded in, so that it would drain at the point that was getting rusted up.  We didn't want to try altering the trim, which would have brought issues with gas locker vents at the bow ending up submerged.

 

This was a successful fix, which avoided multiple gaps being added to the grab rail.  (It was pointed out that this could be dangerous for anybody holding on to them whilst walking along the gunwale, beacuse once they had jumped their hand over one gap, they quite likely would not be expecting another!)

You can see one of the added tubes here....

 

[Col_T]

Thanks for the comments, Paul and Alan.

 

Alan,

Your solution looks particularly appealing, being discrete and, hopefully, comparatively easy to do. Thanks, also, for posting the photo as it means I don't have to try and interpret what you were saying. Pictures and lots of words spring to mind!!

[Rob-M]

We had new drainage points cut in the handrails of our Jonathan Wilson and the old ones filled in.

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

We had new drainage points cut in the handrails of our Jonathan Wilson and the old ones filled in.

Which is probably the better solution, if you can find a fabricator that can do it tidily, and fully disguise where the gap used to be.

What we did with the tubes worked, and didn't look untidy, but you need need to ensure they didn't get blocked with leaves or similar.

 

[X Alan W]

It always used to be reckoned that a trim of bow down around an inch was ideal but modern leisure boats with the positioning of water tank/s ,fuel tank/s, gas locker ,& the differences in weight of full / empty tanks etc tends to make a mockery of this

[PaulJ]

13 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

What we did with the tubes worked, and didn't look untidy, but you need need to ensure they didn't get blocked with leaves or similar.

 

Works for Reeves hulls too..

[Sea Dog]

14 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Which is probably the better solution, if you can find a fabricator that can do it tidily, and fully disguise where the gap used to be.

What we did with the tubes worked, and didn't look untidy, but you need need to ensure they didn't get blocked with leaves or similar.

 

And if it makes you feel any better, my Piper does exactly the same. I've just taken it back to bare metal to re paint the puddling area (which is clearly what brought on today's rain). I've put it down to a small design flaw rather than a ballasting issue, because with both tanks full it hardly does it and she's pretty level.  More frontal ballast might leave her deeper forward than aft, although I'd love to be corrected.  Otherwise it's probably better to redo the paint every 8 years than have major metal work done to cut more drainage.  Annoying though, isn't it? 

[ditchcrawler]

Here is one done by Northwich Dry dock

[jonesthenuke]

We have the same problem with our Jonathon Wilson hull. I have adjusted the trim with additional ballast but its not been enough to resolve the problem. When we have a repaint I will be looking to revise the roof drainage.

 

I had thought that this was an issue just with our boat, I find it surprising and interesting  that its a common problem.

[Rick-n-Jo]

Our Mel Davis too. I wonder if it's because they build them with the base plate level, but they're hardly ever trimmed that way? Seems like too simplistic an error for experienced boat builders. I suspect the position is more for appearance. Also, once into the upsweep of the cabin, without knowing the final trim it would be very hard to guess exactly the lowest point of the curve. The end of the flat roof run would be a sensible compromise?

I might try some bow down trim, see how she swims (no gas locker)

[Rob-M]

Not sure if this will show clearly our recut drainage.

[Neil Smith]

It seems strange that all these shell  builders can't get it right as they must get feed back from people telling them of this problem but not changing its position. 

Neil

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, Neil Smith said:

It seems strange that all these shell  builders can't get it right as they must get feed back from people telling them of this problem but not changing its position. 

Neil

True, particularly as the ones named are all pretty experienced boatbuilders and there's not a duffer amongst 'em.  

[Machpoint005]

Another advantage to a cruiser stern - no fancy upsweep at the arsend. The scuppers on our boat seem to be in exactly the right places!

[Mr Adagio]

Same problem on our end cruiser stern Piper. May be brave and try Alan’s solution.

 

Roger

[Neil Smith]

I think they should all be recalled to have the problem corrected free of charge as they do with cars.

 Neil