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Darrenroberts

What size BMC oil filter?

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Hi guys I need to do an oil change on my BMC 2.2lt raw water cooled engine the current filter is a coopers Fiaam spin on canister FT4899/Z88 all the filters that car mechanics are giving me are not as long but the same diameter. Are they fine too used or under sized?  I’ve added two picture one the filter on there now and the second a new filter as close as I could get but the holes look different? 

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I would not be concerned about a slightly shorter filter,   BUT    is the thread the same, are the seal diameters the same, is there a rubber anti drain back flap visible in the holes?

There is a longer version of this filter used on Ford tractors of the late '60s if you want a really long one.

 

If you change it regularly as prescribed you will have no problems.

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T

15 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I would not be concerned about a slightly shorter filter,   BUT    is the thread the same, are the seal diameters the same, is there a rubber anti drain back flap visible in the holes?

There is a longer version of this filter used on Ford tractors of the late '60s if you want a really long one.

 

If you change it regularly as prescribed you will have no problems.

Thanks for getting back to me the threads look the same and the seals not sure what u mean about a back flap tho? Here’s two more pictures of the top the first one is the new one 

image.jpg

image.jpg

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It must have had a conversion done because the 2.2  usually had a paper cartridge filter as standard.

 

If you poke the white part down the small holes and it moves and is rubber like then it has the anti-drain back valve but as I suspect this is a vertical fitment as long as the filter hangs down it won't make a major difference. It would be different if it was horizontally mounted.

 

Mann filters are good quality and as long as you buy a brand  name you should be OK.

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

It must have had a conversion done because the 2.2  usually had a paper cartridge filter as standard.

 

If you poke the white part down the small holes and it moves and is rubber like then it has the anti-drain back valve but as I suspect this is a vertical fitment as long as the filter hangs down it won't make a major difference. It would be different if it was horizontally mounted.

 

Mann filters are good quality and as long as you buy a brand  name you should be OK.

Thanks Tony my second problem is I can’t undo the sump plug to drain the old oil out and I have no hand pump fitted, I was hopping to fit a new filter and top up new oil just to get me to a marina where I can inverstergate further as I am in the middle of know where. Good or bad idea? Should I call someone out? 

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16 minutes ago, Darrenroberts said:

Thanks Tony my second problem is I can’t undo the sump plug to drain the old oil out and I have no hand pump fitted, I was hopping to fit a new filter and top up new oil just to get me to a marina where I can inverstergate further as I am in the middle of know where. Good or bad idea? Should I call someone out? 

I've checked on the Mann Hummel website and the W719/14 is a direct equivalent of the Coopers FT 4899.  I would not recommend using old oil with a new filter, you can but you should fit a new filter when you change the oil. You can get a pump to suck the oil out of the dipstick hole. Pela is one make.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I've checked on the Mann Hummel website and the W719/14 is a direct equivalent of the Coopers FT 4899.  I would not recommend using old oil with a new filter, you can but you should fit a new filter when you change the oil. You can get a pump to suck the oil out of the dipstick hole. Pela is one make.

 

 

Thank your for checking that’s put my mind at ease, I’ll defiantly buy a pump but I am no where near any where atm I presume it will bugger this new filter? But will it cause any other engine damage if so I’ll have to abandon boat and try source a pump 

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No it wont bugger anything else, I doubt it will even bugger the filter but we don't know what level of contamination is in the oil, if the old filter was doing its job it shouldn't be very high. Fit the new filter, ad half a Lt of oil to replace what was lost in tie old filter and then change the oil when you can. I expect it would be in the next 50 or so engine hours.  For the price of another filter you may as well change it again when you change the oil.

Edited by ditchcrawler

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47 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

No it wont bugger anything else, I doubt it will even bugger the filter but we don't know what level of contamination is in the oil, if the old filter was doing its job it shouldn't be very high. Fit the new filter, ad half a Lt of oil to replace what was lost in tie old filter and then change the oil when you can. I expect it would be in the next 50 or so engine hours.  For the price of another filter you may as well change it again when you change the oil.

I agree. Even if the new filter clogged quickly it would mean the old one was already clogged and its bypass valve was operating so the situation would be no different but unless the engine has been very neglected or some peculiar non-detergent oil had been used in the past such an outcome is very unlikely.

 

When you finally get the pump make sure the oil is nice and hot so it flows up the thin tube more easily.

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5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

No it wont bugger anything else, I doubt it will even bugger the filter but we don't know what level of contamination is in the oil, if the old filter was doing its job it shouldn't be very high. Fit the new filter, ad half a Lt of oil to replace what was lost in tie old filter and then change the oil when you can. I expect it would be in the next 50 or so engine hours.  For the price of another filter you may as well change it again when you change the oil.

 

Thanks for all the responses guys I’ve got her running again now went for a test drive for an hour to let everything bed in, looks like everything is running fine if not better than ever. Thanks again for all the advice, panic over 

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A general word of advice re oil filters.

 

It seems a number of motor factors/wholesalers have rationalised their filter stock and in my case for the Bukh it results in the Factors claiming that a filter about half the size of the original is now the correct one while other companies still supply the correct one.  I am not talking about a few or several mm difference in length, I am talking at least 2cm on the diameter and 1 cm in length. This filter obviously  has a much small "muck trapping" capacity and is not correct. I think the same filter may be used on the BMC 1.8 and probably other engines as well. In the marine field it seem very common.

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

A general word of advice re oil filters.

 

It seems a number of motor factors/wholesalers have rationalised their filter stock and in my case for the Bukh it results in the Factors claiming that a filter about half the size of the original is now the correct one while other companies still supply the correct one.  I am not talking about a few or several mm difference in length, I am talking at least 2cm on the diameter and 1 cm in length. This filter obviously  has a much small "muck trapping" capacity and is not correct. I think the same filter may be used on the BMC 1.8 and probably other engines as well. In the marine field it seem very common.

The suppliers would have us believe that advances in materials and manufacturing have enabled the same filtering capacity in a smaller can. Not necessarily true.

However, if the oil and filter is changed as prescribed, is there any chance that the smaller filters will be blocked before the next oil change? I doubt it.

The quality of the filter is in my opinion more important. I have cut up many filters in the last 50 years and found there to be vast differences between various makes.

The best filters have more pleats in the paper and better sealing of the paper cores onto the end plates.

Some are terrible, Fram possibly the worst, containing considerably less pleated paper and sometimes partially unsealed ends. They are trumpeted as being the largest makers!

I used Crosland for many years, now gone. They were soundly made. 

I remember Ford Transit Motorcraft filters bursting due to faulty oil pressure release valves in the oil pumps, the cases were very thin.

If you find the time, cut open the old filter and see what you have been using and how much sludge is captured, it is surprisingly little if a proper service routine is followed.

I have taken filters off engines and gearboxes that have not been changed for decades and tens of thousands of hours and are still not choked. There is a considerable margin for neglect and with modern thin detergent oils I would expect there not to be a problem if the filter was only changed at more than the normal service interval.

Large commercial vehicle oil and filter changes are being extended year on year, oil is only changed if sample analysis shows it to be necessary.

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However I am talking about Mann filters that I consider fair quality. The original Mann number is still listed by Mann but the local factors simply do not stock it & supply a much smaller one. The major online suppliers seem to stock the original sized filter but an equivalent, not necessarily Mann.  If you can get a reasonable quality filter of the original size why fit something smaller?

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4 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

True Tony but if a smaller one is sufficient and cheaper, why not? I think quality is more important than size in this instance.

But on this forum can we be sure a smaller one will be sufficient - or even the correct sized one (of tolerable quality).  If the engine has been properly maintained and the correct oil has been used then what you say may well be correct (I have not cut many oil filters apart over the last 60 years) but what about if we say a significantly smaller one will be OK and a member fits it to an engine that has have very few oil changes and a lot of low detergent oil has been used. I would suggest there would then be a very good chance of it clogging. However that raises another question.  If there is such a low chance of clogging why bother with the bypass valve.

 

All I am trying to say is that what a retailer/motor factors tells you may well not be true so take care. Better safe than sorry in my book.

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